Need info on amp rec. for these Thiel cs2.4's

Yea, I've had a pair of 2.3s for almost 15 years. The 2.4s are meant to be a real improvement -- but relatively similar. They definitely appreciate some real current, and don't do very well without it, at least in my experience. I've also found the new ones (new Thiels in general) can sound kinda awful until they break in. I got mine used (serial numbers 212 & 213, so they were relatively old when I got them in ’99), and never had to go through the breakin process myself, but I’ve heard new Thiels in shops several times, and they really don’t sound great new: brighter, anemic, pretty unimpressive coherency, and just plain flat (and not flat in a good way). I suspect that is an especially unsatisfying answer given your time frame, but not sure that there’s any real getting around it.

Over the years, I fed the 2.3s with all manner of permutation. Originally it was a VTL TL 2.5 in front of a Bryston 4b-st. Then swapped out the VTL for a Rogue 99 Magnum. Then the Rogue for a Plinius CD-LAD. Then both the Bryston and the Plinius for Rowland gear. Source-wise, went from a tubed CDP, to a Meridian 508.24, to a MHDT Havana DAC, to an Ayre QB-9. So, I’ve swung back and forth between tubes and solid state for everything other than amplification. None of it sounded bad, and really comes down to a matter of taste. And for taste, I can’t even manage to keep mine the same over the years, so I wouldn’t dream of foisting it on anyone else. Most recently, I swapped out the Thiels for something else (which, I must admit, I like a whole lot more), but am actually still running the Thiels in a second (ill-conceived and arguably downright strange) computer set-up.

In short, I guess that the Thiels are really known for being somewhat on the precise side. Call it flat, neutral, clinical, etched, bright, resolving or whatever – which you pick is really a value judgment – really comes down to whether you like that sound or not. For years, I found myself reaching for warm, lush more organic electronics in order to dial them back to more of a medium ground. The Thiels present a great lens for seeing into the character of whatever you end up with up-stream, that’s for sure. But pair them with anything tending towards the brighter side, and that’s very much what you’re going to get. (Not at all familiar with the NAD you’re using, so no guess on what synergies might be in play there). Gosh, I ramble.

Guess four things in short. Thiels can sound great, no question. Thiels like power and current, my rule of thumb has always been at least 200 wpc, doubling to 400 at 4 ohms. Many get by with less, but I wouldn’t choose to. Thiels benefit, to my tastes, from warmer electronics, and can spin out of the range of enjoyable if paired with gear that reinforces their brighter leanings. And, finally, new Thiels seem to need a lot of exercise before settling down. So, getting too far down the road of making commitments on 1-3 before working out no. 4 can be tricky. Yea, kinda sucks, but don’t know what to tell you. My experience, FWIW. Best of luck.

With all due respect to Stevecham, the Thiel 2.4's are not easy to drive.

I think what I am going to try to do is audition (buy with option to send back) the Channel Island D200 MKII's. From all the reviews I've been reading they have a very "tube" sound with a warm midrange and smooth highs without any harshness or grain. They are rated at 200w into 8 and 375w into 4.

Worst case scenario is I'll have to pay for restocking, but I've heard nothing but good things about these amps. I will try my preamp again with all the different amp combinations. Just last night I hooked up my old CJ MF2100 and while it didn't have any real power to drive the speakers the highs weren't bad on that amp directly hooked up the NAD. So while I don't disagree with there being an issue the NAD directly connected to the amp, the brightness only rears its head with the Vincent amp. Hey, if Im wrong I'll be the first to admit it and have the restocking charge to prove it.

I have had the 2.4s for two years, purchased new and I expected these to take quite awhile to break in, and in this regard they did not disappoint. Both Thiel and the dealer told me to be patient and simply let them play and do their thing. Frankly, it took a year of at least 6 hours per week of playing at moderate volumes before I felt that the remaining bit of glare at the top end settled down and the bass began to really open up.

You can certainly warm things up with CJ equipment, perhaps a preowned 2500 amp with one of their preamps will work nicely; I use a CAV50 control amp (much to the chagrin of some other Agoners) with excellent results. These are not hard to drive.

What I can tell you is that we have a small audiophile group locally here and whenever it's my turn to host the evening, my guests are always looking forward to listening to this system. I have had comments like, "if ever you decide to sell those speakers, call me." Then again, we always only play vinyl.

What's your budget?

I must agree that the Thiels are demanding speakers and it takes the right amplifier to make them sound their best. In general, they require an amp with high current capability. As a rule of thumb, a SS amplifier that doubles power output as impedence is halved down to 2 Ohms has high current capability. My experince early on with Thiel speakers proved this rule. The amplifier that I was using with my old planar speakers, which sounded great, did not work so well with the Thiels. (The planars were a pure resistive load.) People on the 'gon use tube amps with Thiels too, I just have no experience with that combo. Once I found the amp that I have now, I did not need to keep searching.

Thiel and McIntosh sounds amazing together.... I would start looking there.

Also, I agree that driving the amp directly from the dac might be part of your problem.

I do have a pair of Thiel 2.4's driven by Krell. Works well for me.

How's your room? You may need to add some dampening to the room, curtains, a couple of acoustic panels, maybe some thick tapestry on the wall behind the speakers....

Thanks for the response. To be clear I did have a modified Acurus LS11 but it didn't do me any favors. The highs and lows sounded about the same - meaning a bit bright. Right now the only thing I have to go on is that when I added the VTL preamp the highs sounded a bit rolled off compared to the Acurus. And when I swapped out the amp with the adcom amp the highs sounded good too (NAD directly to amp). The NAD unit is designed to act as a preamp so I'm not sure what I should look at to verify if it's matched correctly. I do know there doesn't seem to be any problems driving the amps. It does sound better alone than with the Acurus attached as a preamp. So I guess that's why I'm looking into a better amp. Of all my gear it seems to be the weak link and the one constant, meaning if the treble is bright the Vincent is always part of the occasion.

Weather preamp or amp I need something that will provide a warm sound without being bright. On my budget that seems to be SS amp or a tube preamp. Though i dont disagree with your comments on tube vs SS I generalize when I say that the characteristics I'm looking for and from what I've been reding is found in tube equipment or SS that sounds like tube.

Ive done some research but I'm just not that familiar with what gear would be the right fit based on keeping the Thiels.

Like you said, the Thiels can sound truly amazing when everything is right. They are clear windows looking back to your source. If the source or the amplification chain is compromised, then you will clearly hear it with the Thiels. Don't shoot the messenger. I submit that the main problem may be driving your amp directly with the A/D box. This is just a thought- the DAC may not have enough output and/or the optimum output impedance to match your amplifier. That may be making the highs sound too shrill or perhaps the bass is underpowered. A good preamp will match impedances better going into the amp as well as give you better volume control. You really will not loose anything with a good preamp in the chain.
One other thing- in general, tubes do not really roll off highs or accent mids, except for when they are badly worn. A good preamp, be it tube amplified or SS, is a good preamp. Each has their own sonic signature, but tube preamps and amps can be further varied by type and brand of tubes used. And then, yes the characteristic highs can be altered. That is added complexity that can get frustrating. Some days you might like the sound of one tube, but then pop different tubes in and suddenly like that better. Then one day you won't like the sound of those tubes due to air temp, mood, etc and go back to a different set of tubes. A real merry-go-round of delight.

My last comment should read:

"Now I do really like the speakers but maybe I should get rid of them. I know many people will tell me to do just that -"

Also the "flat" comment was in response to the Adcom

Curse you iPad and your auto correct!!!