2. amps-preamps
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Need info on amp rec. for these Thiel cs2.4's

Ok, this is my last attempt before I have Crutchfield take the speakers back.

let me say that when things on these speakers sound right it trully is amazing. On most other average CD recordings though the speakers sound tends towards the brighter side. I just recently purchased a NAD M51 DAC and it helped and is a first rate piece of equipent - I have a review on Audiogon if your interested. However, while Im generally happy with the speakers I think either I need to change the amp or get a CJ preamp - ET2 (or similar). Im using the NAD to drive the Amp (a Vincent sp331 - 150 @ 8 ohms and 300 at 4 ohms) directly so no preamp at this time. I hooked up my friends 5082 Adcom for kicks and the treble is good there, but there is no space or dimension to the music. Thus my thoughts on changing the amp. Its flat. He also has a VTL 2.5 preamp that helps by the virtue that it is a tube piece and helps plump up the mids while softening the highs (thus my thoughts of CJ preamp). However sticking a piece of equipment in between the source and amp seems like a backwards step.

Im dedicated to at most $3500 dollars to bring the system in line for the hights. Problem is I have nowhere near me that I can go to listen to the equipment before purchase so its all online for me, so I'd need to be able to puchase it that way. Im not a big fan of used but I could go there if necessary.

Some thoughts on amps:

Channel Islands d200 MKII
Parasound Halo 21

Preamp thoughts:

CJ ET-2
Rogue 99

What my thoughts on what the amp should do is be warm, solid state, not emphsize the highs obviously, balanced or unbalanced, and have at leat near if not more that 300w into 4 ohms. I've heard dampening is important with Thiels but not sure what the numbers mean.

Please any thoughts would be appreciated on my situation here.

My urgency in this is I have till May 17th before I need to tell Crutchfield to take them back.

Now I do really like the speakers and I know many people will tell me to do just that - they are so close to being "there"! But let's use that as a last resort on info here b/c I know I have that option.
last_lemming
tonywinsc
583 posts
 
Like you said, the Thiels can sound truly amazing when everything is right. They are clear windows looking back to your source. If the source or the amplification chain is compromised, then you will clearly hear it with the Thiels. Don't shoot the messenger. I submit that the main problem may be driving your amp directly with the A/D box. This is just a thought- the DAC may not have enough output and/or the optimum output impedance to match your amplifier. That may be making the highs sound too shrill or perhaps the bass is underpowered. A good preamp will match impedances better going into the amp as well as give you better volume control. You really will not loose anything with a good preamp in the chain.
One other thing- in general, tubes do not really roll off highs or accent mids, except for when they are badly worn. A good preamp, be it tube amplified or SS, is a good preamp. Each has their own sonic signature, but tube preamps and amps can be further varied by type and brand of tubes used. And then, yes the characteristic highs can be altered. That is added complexity that can get frustrating. Some days you might like the sound of one tube, but then pop different tubes in and suddenly like that better. Then one day you won't like the sound of those tubes due to air temp, mood, etc and go back to a different set of tubes. A real merry-go-round of delight.
last_lemming OP
638 posts
 
Thanks for the response. To be clear I did have a modified Acurus LS11 but it didn't do me any favors. The highs and lows sounded about the same - meaning a bit bright. Right now the only thing I have to go on is that when I added the VTL preamp the highs sounded a bit rolled off compared to the Acurus. And when I swapped out the amp with the adcom amp the highs sounded good too (NAD directly to amp). The NAD unit is designed to act as a preamp so I'm not sure what I should look at to verify if it's matched correctly. I do know there doesn't seem to be any problems driving the amps. It does sound better alone than with the Acurus attached as a preamp. So I guess that's why I'm looking into a better amp. Of all my gear it seems to be the weak link and the one constant, meaning if the treble is bright the Vincent is always part of the occasion.

Weather preamp or amp I need something that will provide a warm sound without being bright. On my budget that seems to be SS amp or a tube preamp. Though i dont disagree with your comments on tube vs SS I generalize when I say that the characteristics I'm looking for and from what I've been reding is found in tube equipment or SS that sounds like tube.

Ive done some research but I'm just not that familiar with what gear would be the right fit based on keeping the Thiels.
unsound
7,329 posts
 
What's your budget?
stevecham
3,340 posts
 
I have had the 2.4s for two years, purchased new and I expected these to take quite awhile to break in, and in this regard they did not disappoint. Both Thiel and the dealer told me to be patient and simply let them play and do their thing. Frankly, it took a year of at least 6 hours per week of playing at moderate volumes before I felt that the remaining bit of glare at the top end settled down and the bass began to really open up.

You can certainly warm things up with CJ equipment, perhaps a preowned 2500 amp with one of their preamps will work nicely; I use a CAV50 control amp (much to the chagrin of some other Agoners) with excellent results. These are not hard to drive.

What I can tell you is that we have a small audiophile group locally here and whenever it's my turn to host the evening, my guests are always looking forward to listening to this system. I have had comments like, "if ever you decide to sell those speakers, call me." Then again, we always only play vinyl.
audiojan's avatar
audiojan
402 posts
 
Thiel and McIntosh sounds amazing together.... I would start looking there.

Also, I agree that driving the amp directly from the dac might be part of your problem.

I do have a pair of Thiel 2.4's driven by Krell. Works well for me.

How's your room? You may need to add some dampening to the room, curtains, a couple of acoustic panels, maybe some thick tapestry on the wall behind the speakers....
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