As Lou stated, bare wire is fine, just be careful that all wire remains under screw. Wrap wire in direction that screw turns to tighten. You can also fine spades the correct size.
For bananas I purchased these: "Gold plated copper spade/Banana fork plug adaptor". Available from China via E-bay. Set of 10 for $10. Used then on my Dynaco st-70 and on a friends Klipsch Heresy speakers. I purchased mine last summer, have not looked then up lately, just assume they can still be had.
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For fun you can try the $180 Gemtune APPJ PA1501A mini from Amazon on your speakers. At 3.5 wpc, it uses 2 - 6AD10 tubes which they are saying sound better than EL84 or 6V6 tubes. I really like EL84’s and have owned both single ended and push pull tube amps utilizing this tube.
I think you would be very pleasantly surprised at how loud your Cornwalls will play with this amp and how good it sounds. If for any reason you don’t like it, this amp would be easy to sell and you haven’t spent a lot either. This would probably be the lease expensive way to get a single ended tube amp.
I disagree with Mesch in that you don't need a 35 watt push pull tube amp for Cornwalls, these speakers are plenty efficient. I also prefer EL84's over EL34's as I think it is a more neutral sounding tube with better bass, and less expensive too. |
Bare wire to the speakers is fine, sometimes spades don't fit onto the amp or speakers and there are larger or smaller spades to fit exactly as you need it. No problem using bare wire to your speaker or amp.
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@mesch and @lou_setriodes thanks again for your helpful input. As for the time being, I am still having trouble connecting my speaker wire to the back of my speakers. Somebody recommended spade plugs to me, and then I bought them, and they were too thick. They don't fit on either the back of the speakers or the back of the amp. To remedy the connection to the amp, I have now come across these banana plugs, but I still need a solution for connecting to the speakers, unless the naked cable is fine the way it is. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=2801 |
SE stands for single ended and yes I guess you would need something different on your tv. I'm sorry, I haven't read thru all the comments on this thread; so I don't know what you are trying to achieve on the video end.
I've never been much of a video / surround sound person. I figure I probably already watch too much tv as it is and if I had surround sound/thx/7.1 or whatever the new thing in video sound is these days, it wouldn't be good, plus I didn't want to have to get all the gear that goes with it.
Over the years, I've always had tube amps with volume controls so I could use them as an integrated amp and then I have a little source selector box ($50) and phono preamp to allow me to play my tuner, cass, cd player, lp's and any other source.
A single ended amp sounds different from push pull. With the horns of the Klipsch, SE sounds more real, pure, and organic. An analogy would be this: SE is like a sweet delicious grapefruit, no sugar is needed because it tastes delicious all on its own. PP is a grapefruit with the extra sweetness of sugar added. SE is a beautiful naked woman, PP is a beautiful woman in a bikini. PP is more accentuated but with the immediacy of horn speakers, the SE amp sounds better, IMO. I prefer both SE and PP tube gear to solid state gear.
And the lower the power the better it usually sounds. Any tube can be made to run in SE mode, but the true 4 pin triode tubes (2a3, 300B, 45, 50, 10, 845 & 211) sound way better than other tubes. They will be more expensive too and the 845 and 211 will be of much higher power too. To keep costs down, I would look for a SE amp that doesn't use one of these tubes.
In the past, I've owned a 5 wpc 6BQ5 SE int run in pentode (a little higher power and better bass) and also a KT88 int that ran in both triode and pentode (5/15 wpc) and the triode was sweeter sounding. I now own a couple custom SE 45 amps and a custom 3E29 amp that I recently inherited and selling 2 of them as soon as I can get them looked at by a technician. I imagine they will all sound pretty spectacular as they were built by the chief amp designer from the old Lafayette Radio Corp.
Running your sources thru an NAD preamp will also degrade the sound as well. A source selector switchbox might just be the best remedy. Use it for your audio sources directly to the tube amp, and then when you want to do video, have the NAD preamp plugged into the switchbox too. |
Though it is true that the older Klipsch speakers may sound best when driven by tubes, the question is how do yours sound to you driven by your newly purchased NAD? Even if one was interested in trying tube amplification, I am not sure one need restrict oneself to a single ended (SE) tube amp. This is especially true when one is playing into a room as large as yours, and is working with your budget. A quality EL34 based tube amp purchased used might be nice to try.
Should you wish to try a tube amplifier, you could use your NAD as a preamp, as it has pre out to amp in jumpers. WIth that approach the possible issue that the NAD pre becomes a weak link arises.
If I owned your speakers, driven by a SS integrated amp, and found I desired to go the tube route, I would consider the purchase of a tube integrated. Likely one providing ~35wpc. Would likely check out Jolida or Prima Luna.
So, what do you think regarding the sound of your system as driven by the NAD considering you have been provided with a free set of speakers and have a high quality budget SS amp?
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@lou_setriodes thank you very much!
A.) Can you recommend a model or a quality brand? What is "SE"?
B.) is the tube amp in addition to (as in, not replacing) my NAD integrated amp? I guess so, as I still need to get audio for my cable/TV |
I know you don't want to get into tube gear; however, if you really want to hear how good those Cornwalls are you have to put low powered single ended tube amps on it. It can be done reasonably in your price range too.
I used to sell Klipsch speakers at retail many many moons ago and we always had SS mid fi gear on them and I never really liked how they sounded. Then years later I bought a 5 wpc SE tube integrated amp and it was like magic. Klipsch never sounded better. The Cornwalls are very efficient so 2-3 wpc will get amazingly loud. |
I should add that I sincerely hope your 'hum' issue is solved and you find yourself happy with your NAD integrated. I believe you have put together a very nice system based on a gift pair of classic speakers.
Please keep us posted. |
I use tone defeat, less in the signal path.
I leave soft clipping off however it depends on how hard one drives the amplifier stage. Try it both ways and decide.
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one more thing - do you recommend I use either of these features of the amplifier:
-soft clipping
-tone defeat |
@mesch Bought them, thanks.
I did not disconnect Aux input, because I wanted to see whether my circuit/amp isolation worked. It seems it did, at least for the time being. I played a song from a record ("CD") and then turned off the turntable and switched to the TV ("Aux"), which is where I usually experience the hum.
There was no hum. I will see whether it occurs in any other scenarios.
I will have to stick to my current amp for the time being. I have a big trip coming up and don't want to incur any other expenses until I'm convinced the tube amp is the best choice for me. |
Yes, you will need 4 pairs.
Isolate amp to a separate outlet on a different circuit.
Does 'hum' occur with input to aux disconnected?
I would not consider another amplifier until your 'hum' issue is resolved. |
@atmasphere per your previous comments, after giving my serial # in a previous comment, I was told my Cornwalls are from 1973, not the 60's. |
If a power amp like the ST-70 you would still need a preamp.
If your budget really is that severe then the NAD might have to be the ticket for a while.
There are integrated tube amps from the classic period (1958 to 1965 or so). Most of them are 30 watts/channel or less, and go for a surprising amount of money if in good shape. But your speakers were built for amps exactly like that...
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@atmasphere so, will the tube amp completely replace my integrated amp or will the IA be used for all of my other inputs? |
What is a tube amp you'd recommend for $400 or less? Well that's the thing about tube power, and why there are high efficiency loudspeakers. I can't think of where you would find a $400 tube power amp, unless you are able to find one on Craigslist or at a garage sale. Sometimes you find Dynaco ST-70s in such places. Usually they need to be refurbished, but if the price is right, they are totally worth it. |
http://http//www.showmecables.com/product/Spade-Plug-Metal-Gold-2-PK.aspx @atmasphere Thanks very much. I needed the lesson and hope you'll have more for me later. When you mentioned that the music shouldn't sound loud, that clicked. Because although I seemingly had a problem with my speaker the other night, I was enjoying the color and breadth of the sound. Indeed, it sounded rich - it DID NOT sound loud until the interruption happened, which may well have been caused by the lack of spade plug Mesch mentions, or the overloaded circuit. What is a tube amp you'd recommend for $400 or less? Should I sell my newly purchased NAD 326BEE? (which I just bought, as was the purpose/genesis of this thread)? I was also looking for a bluetooth DAC anyways, and someone made a great recommendation, but it seems Monoprice also makes a cheap tube/bluetooth combo that has great reviews - https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16153@mesch do I need one pair of spades for each side of wire at each point of connection, aka 4 pairs? I have isolated the receiver power to a separate outlet and will try it later. I have noticed the quickly oscillating, metronomic buzzing occurs usually after going from another input like AUX (where my toslink/optical adapter is from TV) or from the POWER OFF position. |
Hopefully when your friend gets back he can help. Until then I have two thoughts. I would not leave that much exposed wire on the speaker cables. If they short it will damage the amp. Buy some spade lugs for the speaker ends.
You have a lot of equipment running through the power strip. Try using an extension cord to run the amp off a separate house circuit to see if that helps. Not to be permanent but as a test. |
Also, @atmasphere - interesting. When I called Klipsch, the man
discouraged tube amps. Maybe that's because I prefaced our conversation
with the word "affordable". (I'm still outside of year-long complete
house remodel.)
What does "clean" sound mean? Why is what a tube amp can do better than clean, or more desirable? I imagine you didn't tell him the speakers were from the 1960s, and I'll bet he wasn't even born by then. 'Clean' means 'not distorted', but to understand what that means the first thing you have to know is how the human ear works! To that end: the human ear brain system uses higher ordered harmonics to figure out how loud a sound is. In this regard its not using the fundamental tones. If the higher ordered harmonics (5th and above, so for a 100 Hz tone, 500Hz and above) are altered by the electronics, the ear will perceive the sound as louder than it actually is and will also assign a tonality to the sound. Higher ordered harmonics are perceived as 'brightness' (and also 'harshness', particularly in the case of the 7th harmonic). Low distortion on paper is meaningless unless we also know what it is
that makes it 'low'. Its one thing if we can see the lower orders in the
harmonic distortion spectrum. But if we are to take how the ear
perceives sound into account, the higher orders should really be a lot
lot lower than they are currently with all 'low THD' amps. And by that I
mean **at least** 2 orders of magnitude! Just being 'low THD' doesn't cut it. Now it happens that tube amps in general make less of the higher ordered harmonics than transistors do (this is why tubes are still around BTW); so as a result they don't sound as bright and tend to be smoother. (Tubes often make more of the lower ordered harmonics but apparently the ear does not care so much about that- back in the 1960s General Electric did some testing that showed that people would tolerate 30% of a 2nd harmonic in the sound, but objected strenuously if the higher orders were present at levels less than 0.5%.) The measure of this is easy enough- when you turn it up, the system should not *sound* loud. It should sound relaxed, despite playing a higher volume. Nor should you get any 'sound of horns' (honkiness); it should simply sound relaxed and a lot like real music. If, especially when you crank it, that it gets uncomfortable (brightness and harshness is indeed a coloration) then you will have a good understanding of why tube amps are still around decades on after being declared obsolete. Again- a good find- people are always on the lookout for earlier Klispch speakers- they have a reputation of being better than the later ones. I don't mean to cause any undo concerns either- this hobby is supposed to be fun after all :) Have Fun! |
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First of all @mesch, the turntable is grounded but I am pretty sure my speaker wire could look less messy and I'm quite sure the way I wrapped it around the posts is dead wrong. This brings me to last night. **Last night, I had two problems with my speakers. (Please see pics of wire terminals) The first one happened when I went from TV to turntable. I went from AUX (I picked up a cheap Insignia analog-optical adapter and cable for the time being; there is no analog out of my TV) to CD (my turntable is assigned to this) and there was a very deep bass wave happening. It was very powerful and a bit scary.The volume was still up, but not much. The second problem happened when I reversed the previous and went back to TV (optical). This is when the sound from the previous post happened again, a harsh, rapid oscillating sound. Perhaps I should POWER OFF when switching from one input to another. I hope these new speakers aren't broken. They do sound great.If you don't mind, please provide links and/or pics of things I need to fix this problem. The cords and everything looks like a rat's nest also, but I am also waiting on a proper media console to lay/conceal cords. Could someone advise on how much bare wire should be exposed and how I can better connect everything? Also, @atmasphere - interesting. When I called Klipsch, the man discouraged tube amps. Maybe that's because I prefaced our conversation with the word "affordable". (I'm still outside of year-long complete house remodel.) What does "clean" sound mean? Why is what a tube amp can do better than clean, or more desirable? P.S. I just found someone local who can come to my place and help me in person, but he is on vacation and won't be able to get here for a couple weeks. Thanks again. |
Excellent advice from @atmasphere . Personally, I would go with low powered valve amplification or sell the speakers and buy something more suitable for SS. |
For the most part it seems you've had some pretty good advice- given that you don't want to use tubes.
Here's something to think about though! The Cornwall was designed to be played with tubes (the speakers made in the 60s were the same as the original late 1950s design). If you use solid state, you may find that the crossovers don't work as designed. this is one of the reasons that older horns are often thought as 'honky' and the like; if the midrange driver is operating outside its proper frequency band honky is what you get when you turn it up. If you experience 'shouty' or any other unpleasantness at volume this is also an indication.
You don't need much power- the whole issue with tubes since the beginning of time has been that tube power is expensive- so a tube amp of moderate power will be plenty. 30 watts will do the trick and if the amp is in good condition to begin with they really are not that hard to live with!
If you are really set on solid state, you might experiment with a bit of resistance in series with the speaker- 1 or 2 ohms for starters. This will reduce the damping of the amplifier and may well help out in the bass. Its common with higher efficiency drivers that you can overdamp the woofers fairly easily (high damping factor is not recommended). You might get thump but no definition as a result. The series resistor may help with that. Keep in mind though that the resistor will be dissipating amplifier power so it should be rated for a few watts!
The speaker has a good reputation. Its a lucky find- have fun!
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Thanks, all. Ben very busy.
Problem has stopped for the time being. If it arises again, I'll pay attention to the circumstances and report accordingly. |
I had an issue with a nasty noise like a 'buzz'. Ended up being my dishwasher causing issues in the circuit. I don't normally operate my dishwasher during listening, so it took awhile to show itself.
Might take note of other electronics that are in operation while listening like ceiling fans.
Do all inputs have the buzz? Or just your turntable?
Like others said, check your ground for your turntable. Gently lift/wiggle your ground wire and see if the buzzing changes.
Your speakers have solid bass - check to see if other items in the room are rattling/buzzing. For instance, did you place a bowl, etc on or near your speakers?
Good advice on snugging your driver screws. Don't over do it, snug is good. I've heard of people overtightening drivers causing problems.
I'm sure you will figure it out- good luck.
gary
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Right u are, mesch, they are old speakers. Tighten up the drivers and any brackets in the cabinet...Gently. |
Buzz - check that drivers are secure into the enclosures of your speakers. Check the surrounds on the bass drivers.
Hum - many possibilities, 1st to check is the TT grounding as suggested by lowrider. If your Blueray player has analog output try it and see if hum remains.
+1 lowrider re DAC inputs. |
Only need one DAC. It will have multiple inputs for your different sources.
Buzzing...is your TT grounded ? Are you using an RCA cable with a ground wire? |
So I should get DAC's for every individual digital source?
also, I just set up my speakers, NAD, preamp and turntables the other day and although the first couple days sounded great, last night a "buzz" started happening.
It stopped for the time being but has me a bit worried. (Otherwise the vinyl has sounded pretty nice and warm. )
How do I fix?
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I just posted in another thread about the audioengine bluetooth. You can get quite good sound out if it if done right. My phone (HTC One) streaming Tidal to the audioengine to a Chord Hugo was spectacular. Yes, the Chord is a bit more expensive but the difference was clearly noticeable. Can't hurt to try it?
My current DAC's: Schiit Bifrost, Emotiva UMC 200 pre with DAC and Oppo 105. I like the Schiit and Oppo, emotiva is just for movies. I think a Chordette is in my near future. |
Lowrider, thanks for the kind words.
Djniteline, regarding bluetooth, the aptX codex as provided by the Audioengine B1( not the only one having this codex) recommended by lowrider provides, as I understand it, the best audio from bluetooth devices. That said, wireless signal transfer is not at the same quality as cable transfer.
The best digital performance from your system (NAD + Cornwall) would be obtained from playing CDs direct, or playing the AIFF files from computer or server via a DAC.
I use a Macbook Pro to play AIFF files and find it to have very good sound quality using itunes. The sound quality can be improved by using an after market playback program such as Pure Music which overlaps with itunes (I also use this program). My Macbook is not dedicated to music use only.
Once a system is in place one can always fine tune it for increased performance. Take things one step at a time. Lets get your TT/phonostage, cable box, and BlueRay player playing music through NAD/Cornwalls first and see how that sounds to you. Though it can at times seem frustrating, keep in mind it is all about plain ol' fun. |
Oops, meant to add this:
so, it seems that you are saying the quality of the digital audio is dependent on the Bluetooth source?
Is there a recommended USB hub with a small screen that people use for home entertainment? This way I won't have to dedicate a computer.
Thanks again. |
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Very well said @mesch .
As mesch stated, Bluetooth is convenient, but not the highest quality. Hardwiring components, eg, USB, provides higher SQ.
Good luck with your speakers. |
You have a very good analog system complimentary to your newly purchased amplification, and congrats on that. First thing is to prove that your new speakers are in working order using this (as you have stated). Then you can focus toward your digital sources.
You indicated that you wanted to put together a quality system now that could be improved as you learned more as to how to satisfy your needs. It seems to me that those needs reside in the digital domain. Any advise that can be provided requires knowledge as to the options available. Therefore some of the following questions.
Audio for your TV can be routed from the cable box. Many have digital and coax output. If yours does then you could simply route the analog outputs to the NAD. Another option is to route a digital signal to a DAC then into the NAD. What are the outputs on this box?
What are the outputs on your Blueray player, analog vs.digital? Do you use this player for CDs as well as for video disks?
Are you interested in using your MAC laptop as a server to play the AIFF flies? This has the potential to be your best music source.
Regarding bluetooth use, you can transmit from your computer or your iphone. This is where you will need to differentiate between convenience needs and sound quality needs. Also your primary listening area focus vs. whole house listening. This is also where I have the least experience as i don't use bluetooth.
Oh, I should add that you are welcome. I enjoy sharing on this forum.
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Given that you have music as AIFF files, is your laptop a MAC?
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Good for you, I bet you will really enjoy the Nad.
I have a Schiit Modi Multibit ($250) and use it with my CD player and BT receiver.
Of course there are several other manufacturers of quality dacs.
Regards,
gary
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Your NAD integrated/Cornwall combo should sound fantastic.
Please keep us posted and enjoy.
Bill |
@mesch Thanks! Which of the Schitt do you recommend? I think they would look great in my system, given their look.
I just bought the NAD! Very excited. Will keep all posted on the developments of my audio setup and results.
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There is a MicroMega ($130) and a Music Hall DAC ($250) for sale now. Both having the inputs you need. You might also check out Schiit Audio web site. They make several DACs all considered very good for the money.
Once again, good luck! |
You will need a DAC, a digital to analog converter. These can be bought having optical, coax, and USB inputs. Therefore a single DAC can serve several selectable digital inputs and output to a single line level input on the NAD326BEE. I believe having a separate DAC as opposed to a internal one is better for the flexibility it provides.
Your bluetooth device will occupy the toslink optical input on the DAC. If your BD player has a coax digital output it could be linked to the DAC. Your computer can occupy the USB input.
I use a MAC (have both a Mini and a macbook) with AIFF flies as playback on all my systems. I own several DACs, all bought used.
Several come up for sale here on AG. I will take a look after posting this.
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@elevick @mesch @tls49 @lowrider57 @uncledemp @mb1audio02
A couple more things. The following features are not offered by the NAD326BEE: -Built-in DAC (Digital to Analog Converter): What does this mean? I Googled it but I am still a bit confused. Is there an add-on I can get which is good quality? -Optical audio inputs: Really? I feel like even basic AVR's have this, although I've never done optical before Is it worth it?? Does it have Optical OUTputs? The bluetooth receiver I get will have an optical out. Should I get it anyways? -High-resolution Audio Playback? Is this necessary? Sounds gimmicky. Remember, I do have large-format AIFF files on my phone and will want to hardwire them through the receiver/3.5mm jack through my phone or another dedicated drive. Thanks again, all. |
Fwiw,
If you can find a local audio nut, they could help a lot. Many audio folks are friendly and helpful, after all it's their hobby and interest.
You may consider looking on your local Craigslist under electronics and scan for audio gear ads that are enthusiastic and personable. Give them a call and ask if they, or someone they know would be willing to help a guy out. You've done a thoughtful job of posing relevant questions. The right person can help you with gear questions and have you listening to music pretty quickly.
My advice is to move slowly at first regarding purchases. I've owned the Cornwalls little brother, the Chorus. They are dynamic and you probably can enjoy your tunes with a rather inexpensive receiver, commonly found used on Craigslist until you start forming an opinion of what you want more or less of. Might ask your neighbor if he has any more gear he wants to sell- in fact he may be the guy to guide you through this. Seems like pretty nice guy to me.
Sorry for the long post, just trying to help. You've got some nice speakers to build a system around. The right person can help you get going and help you position your speakers, which is an important detail. Of course, be mindful who you invite into your home, etc. Maybe there is local audio club, etc. (The Nad suggestion is solid btw- guys on here are sharp and helpful, just thinking a local could help move things along easier.)
Best,
gary
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You’ve got good speakers, so I agree that you should concentrate on finding a quality integrated. You can add a Bluetooth receiver, DAC, and phono pre.
One reason NAD is highly recommended is because even though it has a modest power rating, it provides the current needed to drive many speaker demands.
For movies you can add a subwoofer to the amp to fill the room with extended low-end and add realism to the sound effects. |
I owned a pair of these for many years. Beautiful speakers with amazing sound. You only need 3-5 watts to drive them to very loud levels. So, don't get hung up on wattage. Keep in mind that a crappy 100 watt receiver will sound much worse than a vintage Marantz with only 18 watts.
To get the grills off, they are almost always held on with velcro all around. Pull/pry off carefully so you don't harm the wood or break the grills. A paint can opener may work.
You don't need tubes but a "warmer" sounding amp is best. These speakers will sound harsh with some gear. Enjoy these, if you like the horn sound, there's nothing better. Bass is amazing too.
What is your budget for an amp/receiver? There are ones with streaming, bluetooth and much more that will work well. |
In the new line the C 338 may be of interest to you. It is a Class D amplifier. I don't know if it has been released yet so has not had the exposure that the C 326BEE has. It has 4 digital inputs, WiFi and Bluetooth inputs, and 3 analog inputs with a onboard phonostage. The value of digital vs. analog inputs would be determined by the outputs of your blueray player and cable box (digital vs. analog).
My personnel bias is toward the C 326BEE as I prefer standard class A or A/B amplifiers. There are many threads here discussing the Class D types vs class A or AB.
Take your time and research your options. Good luck in your search.
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The C326BEE lacks internal Bluetooth. They often come up used or as refurbished here on AG. A separate bluetooth receiver could be attached to a line level input. That said there are integrateds with internal bluetooth. NAD has a new line of integrateds that have internal DACs and may have Bluetooth. I would have to check on this.
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