Saw S1 for sale Q2 have not heard of that one yet. |
Hi Ebm, thanks. My room is much smaller 16' X 12', seems like I should wait for something like a Q2. My platter oxidized after I asked someone, and he was using bare hands, when we remove it.It look like this :
[/http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h335/Mesael/tw.jpg] |
Q3 is Wonderful in my room 20Lx13W best speaker i ever had and platter upgrade was the icing on the cake!! |
Hi Ebm. What is the dimension of your listening room ? I, also like you before waiting for Magico Q2 or something like S3 to come out, afraid the Q3 will overpower my small room. |
Just got BN platter upgrade Suteetat is on the money great upgrade big improvement in sound makes my Q3s sing!! |
I updated my AC with the "3 Motor Pod in December. This week I update the Stilpoint feet to the BN feet. In my system, the feet are allowing a more musical presentation along with better low level details. I highly recommend the BN feet. |
In_shore, I take a slightly difference view as far as TW and upgrade path is concerned. After introducing the Black Knight which uses basically the same platform (dimension wise at least) with improvement in controller, feet, motor, platters etc, I think it is nice that TW lets you buy bit and pieces of BN to use with Raven AC rather than not making it available and make you buy the whole new BN table if you want to upgrade Raven AC. Great business plan perhaps, but also friendlier to consumers' wallet as well, I think :)
I heard Lamm the first time when I was in college at Summer CES in Chicago. If I remember correctly, it was the first CES that the high end stereo stuff at the Hilton was opened to the public and it was the first time that Lamm launched itself at CES. I remembered hearing this amp I think it was with Wilson Watt/puppy and it sounded so great that I wished I could afford. Well...almost 20 years later, I did.
I love their SET amp as well but never had speakers that would be suitable but even the hybrid one is still great. |
Hi Pradeep, well hopefully nothing serious will happen over here although there is a potential for a major event here over the next couple of weeks. |
Suteetat
Many thanks. Hope to be listening to your platter upgrade soon.
Seasons greetings
Pradeep |
Really enjoying my recent 3 motor pod upgrade but I suppose I will have to spring for the BN platter eventually :) The 3 motor pod was a very big improvement for the $$$ so if the platter even gives another 2/3 of that it is certainly worth it. |
Suteetat , Certainly makes sense to me.
Enjoy your upgrade |
Pradeep, if I have to choose, I would pick the 3 motors over the platter as I think the motors give a more significant improvement for around the same ball park cost. Mind you, the platter upgrade is not insignificant either, you just don't get quite as much bang for the buck as the motors. I think the 3 motors improve the bass and dynamic, impact, transient attack etc by quite a bit and this is perhaps, the area that I find AC-1 a little deficient especially with Reed or FR arm (but not so with Graham) whereas the platter just give more refinement and improves in the area that I think the regular AC-1 is already pretty good at. Does that make any sense? |
Sutteetat TW seem to have gone the root of VPI with a constant upgrade path, bearings, platters, feet, motors, ect however nothing wrong with that business plan.
After I purchased my two motor TW AC a motor controller and feet upgrade were offered which I got a great discount on from Cantolano, then a third motor option was offered shortly after which was praised highly in online reviews and TAS I believe including audio blog owner testimonials like here on Audiogon.
Now I'm not sure what MK version that I owed however reading the testomonials above including elsewhere owners seem to agree with everything said ,for the going price is the TW now a mature product or is it something else?, just asking.
I noticed you use Lamm amplifiers, I was an early adopter of Lamm ,with these few watts of power it's fantastic at driving certain speakers with a sensitivity approaching a 100 or more, just saying. |
Suteetat
Congrats on the platter upgrade. Am I correct in inferring that there is a bigger bang going from the single motor to 3 motors than in the platter upgrade. Just curious.
Cheers
Pradeep |
I got the BN platter a couple of weeks ago. The background is more quiet, more inner detail and better separation of instruments. I am not sure about better bass though as that may be from more detail and more quiet background that I can hear more detail in the bass area. I got more slam, better pacing, tighter tauter bass from upgrading from 1 to 3 motors pod. |
Looking forward to your thoughts |
Ill let you know in Feb Jeff says better,bass,wider stage etc. |
I am using the TW AC platter and BN footers.
Huge improvement over the very good standard platter on my GT
Has the BN platter arrived ?
If so your findings please. |
Just ordered TW BN platter big upgrade. |
Glad you found the 3 motor pod to be a significant upgrade.
Enjoy,have fun and have a great holiday |
I recently installed the new 3 motor pod and thought I would add to what other owners have said.
Going from the single motor to the 3 motor pod has been a very significant upgrade in my system, far more than a mere tweak. I admit that I do not understand exactly why 3 motors is better. More torque possibly, better belt tension? Why would this matter once the platter is up to speed???
What I can say is the improvement was immediately obvious on the first track of the first record I queued up. On large scale classical (the most challenging material for my system), I was struck by the higher level of articulation and realism of strings. The orchestra as a whole had an increased sense of scale and weight. Bass quality and definition were both notably better. The separation between instruments was another major improvement. Certain busy passages that were a bit congealed before were now more intelligible. Going through my favorites from classical, jazz and rock I am still amazed at what such a deceptively simple upgrade has done for the music in audiophile terms.
Leaving all the hyperbole aside, the biggest change is in the drive and swings of the music. The 3 motor pod adds a big dose of drama to the sound. With the single motor setup I often found myself increasing the volume in an attempt to add a bit more fire to the music but louder was simply louder.
If you currently have an AC1 I believe the 3 motor pod is a must have. I know that is a bit presumptuous but let's be honest - you already went far beyond "budget". In my system, the sonic improvement was greater than I heard from upgrading my cartridge to the Ortofon Windfeld from the Cadenza Black and the 3 motor pod adds things that I believe a cartridge alone will not do. This is a fantastic upgrade. |
Why is the new 3 Unit better than the 3 single motors. I have a Raven one and i would think that it would be better to use 2 motors insted of the 3 unit.
That way i could have a pull from 2 sides insted of one side.
Can anyone tell me why you use the 3 unit motor insted of 2 or 3 single motors? |
I recently added the the 3 motors unit and am very impressed with upgrade. The midrange is better focus but the biggest improvement seems to be in the bass area where the bass tightened up very nicely with better pitch and definition, pacing and slam. Not sure why 3 motors running at the same speed as single motor would make such a difference but it does. First time I home demoed the 3 motors unit, I did not want to return it and wait until my motors arrived.
The Black Knight platter should be here in the next few weeks! |
I now have the BN platter on my TW Raven AC-3 and its wonderful. I changed the bearing at the same time to the latest BN bearing.
Double the weight of the old one but spins so easy and free. With the 3 motors, the heavier platter does need a helping hand on start up. Tried using one motor which was easier for start up, however 3 motors sounds better.
Overall more open, quieter with better coherence top to bottom and a tighter bottom end.
cheers |
I've been having so much fun with my TW GT that I seldom look at the forums.
I just peeked and found this thread revised.
Now I have to email Jeffrey to discuss upgrades.
It never ends.
Have Fun |
Latinsambal, please report back on the differences from the motor change:-) |
Hi Pcosta,
Yes, the BN platter would take it ALL the way! One step at a time :) I'm also in the process of adding a vintage Ortofon 309 RMG and 2 SPUs to the rotation - the new Silver Meister MKII and a 1990s SPU Meister (copper). Just waiting on the phono cable and the custom armboard for it. Totally different presentation and qualities vs. my 10.5/Windfeld combo. |
Got BN 3 motor wonderful upgrade,i had BN feet arm board and Battery power supply all of these made a great table even better. |
Next is the Black Night platter then you will take it all the way ;) |
My 3 motor pod upgrade should arrive in a week or so. I am very interested to hear the difference for myself. Jeff at HWS assures me that the improvement is significant and that seems to be confirmed by everyone who has made the upgrade. The Raven AC will be my last table so it makes sense to take it all the way :) |
I think you are over complicating things :)
Go here ..and see for yourself
http://www.tw-acustic.de/en/
They are all called Ravens ....
Raven 1
Raven AC
Raven Black Night.
I have the Raven 1, modified from factory for becoming a raven 2 (two arm pods, external motor)
http://www.tonepublications.com/media/tw-acustic-raven-two.jpg
Raven AC can have 1, 2 or 3 motors
The raven 1 can actually have more than 1 motor. AND Thomas at TW himself said the Raven 1 can work with his new 3 motor unit. The height from photos may look different ..but it will work. Or else Thomas would not have let me order one.
As I told everyone else on this thread. Contact Jeff @ High water sound and get it from the source as opposed to the chatter on this thread!
-Assad |
Jarrah,
Now that I have read your comments regarding the TW GT, I think you might be confusing readers regarding the new 3 motor unit now being offered by TW for Raven AC owners. The Raven AC used a single motor unless the unit purchased was the Raven AC-3 which used 3 individual motors. The new 3 motor unit is intended for use with the Raven AC or the Raven AC-3. I do not believe it will fit a TW 1.0 which is a lesser priced table and a smaller table with a lower profile. I mean table height not quality. The number of tone arms on your Raven does not make the model a one, two or three. |
Great news about the match between the 3 motor unit and the 1.0. Thanks for the heads up Jarraa. |
Pierre1976,
I am a fellow Raven One owner (a variant of it, A raven 2). The 3 unit motor will actually work on the Raven One (I am planning on ordering one shortly!). Email Jeff for more details (his line has been down since he has been hit by Sandy pretty bad). His email can be found on his website.
Additionally, I have been experimenting with the raven MC units. If you have not already tried, you should definitely experiment with the AC or even the BN MC. I have tried both and am pleasantly surprised of how great and simple an upgrade it is.
-Assad |
Pierre1976,
I wouldn't think the 3 unit motor would fit the 1.0 in height. Call Jeff at High Water Sound to see if there is an option. |
Maril555,
I'd rather not disclose inaccurate pricing for any of these toys. I suggest you contact Jeff Catalano at High Water Sound. |
Still using my Triplanar 7 and loving it. Not to mention my Transfiguration Orpheus. Not to mention my Symposium Quantum Signature. Did I mention my Black Knight MC? |
Sunnyboy , very nice!!!. The Acustic with upgrades and the Talea should keep you toe tapping for a very long time.
Enjoy |
Elinor Great addition.Have fun and throw away those CD's. |
Hi
I have a Raven One. Would there be any "opgrading" with 2 motors.
The one there is on the table and one single unit? |
Could you share a retail price of both the motor and the CU? |
I stopped listening to cds years ago except perhaps as background music when the conversation gets dull.. |
Yes Sunnyboy. I feel whole and needing nothing. What a joy. When will I trash my CD player and my CDs? |
Congrats on your new motor. I completely endorse your sentiments about the significant improvement of the 3 motor unit versus the single motor. Its been nearly 6 months since I swapped the single motor for the BN motor & PSU in my TW AC. I suspect to get the best results the battery driven PSU helps. Jet black backgrounds , a much longer sustain and decay of notes. Couldn't agree more . There is nothing to add to the vinyl chain :)
NJoy
Pradeep |
