I vote for the 2000 series. I have owned them before and they play well, but need a lot of power (at least mine did). My room is a similar size, but I settled on the 4000 series (4XO) as they deliver better bass.
The room recommendations are only estimates and actual listening is the key along with good component quality/power. When I had my 2000 speakers, I took them over to a friend's house and played them on a 500W/channel system; they sounded much better then with my set-up (300W/channel). Ohms love power!
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It's an amazing thread! It took me a week just to skim through it ;-)
It's my first post on this forum, I hope somebody can advise me on a choice between Ohm Walsh Tall 1000 and 2000. Based on the info on Ohm's web site the room volume (somewhere 2000-2300cf) calls for the 2000s. However in my e-mail exchange with Evan at Ohm he said that they would recommend 1000s instead. My room is 8' high, 15' front-to-back and from 15' to 22' left-to-right . There's an irregular opening on the right, the right wall is really not there, it's a side of the stairs opening to the upstairs and the right front and back corners are parts of an open walkway. Most of the left side is glass. A large TV hanging on the front wall between the speakers. My listening/watching couch is against the back wall so I am sitting 10'-12' from the speakers.
For the amplification there's a Musical Fidelity A308 integrated (150W-8ohm/300W-4ohm) and an OPPO BDP-103d for source. I am looking for a 2.0 (preferably) or 2.1 setup for the music (mostly jazz and classical at low to moderate spl-s) that would also serve for watching movies (although movies sound effects are a lesser concern for me).
I like the smaller size and price of the 1000-s but are they the better fit for the space? As for the 2000-s, I like the idea that with the 8"drivers and larger cabinets it's less likely I'd need to add a sub and they are matching the recommended room volume.
Would there be a significant difference between 1000s and 2000s in such a space? Could the 2K be too boomy or 1K too thin? If I start a trial with the 1000s, how would I know that there's room to grow and I maybe missing an edge of the 2000s without trying both of them?
Thanks fo your consideration! |
@mapman - I have owned and liked an Odyssey Audio Stratos HT3 (with cap upgrade) - a three channel amp for the front channels of my combo HT/2-channel system since 2006.
Last September, the amp suffered a capacitor failure. So I sent (all 64 lbs. of) it in for repair and possible upgrade to Odyssey. For $900, I had the left & right chanels upgraded to full Kismet status, Odyssey's top line of amps. Sadly, UPS damaged the amp on the way back. Once that was fixed, I had issues getting my Vandersteen 2Wq subs with M5-HP crossovers to work together with the amp, which has a higher input impedance than the original Stratos. Apparently, an Audiogoner sold me a pair of the M5-HP crossovers which were custom made (without bothering to tell me this), and so they require different settings than do the standard M5-HPs. I have been working with both Vandersteen (Richard and Ray in the service department) and John Rutan of Audio Connection in Verona, NJ, to sort it all out, make sure the M5-HPs are working properly and properly set them for use in my system. They are on the way back from Hanford now. With a bit of luck, everything will be right as rain by the first weekend in June. |
What was the amp improvement?
BTW when I talk about maxing out, I mean the sound I can get in that room. The first choice I made was to go with the OHMs for that and then kept on tweaking from there.
In my second system everything sounds lovely but there are limits, errors of ommission and WAF mainly. |
@mapman - Yup, that’s just it: Before my system soiled the bed last September, I really thought it could not get much better than it was, even if it wasn’t perfect (at least not without spending major cabbage). And yet, here I am enjoying not a minor or incremental improvement from a $900 upgrade to my amp, but a major, transformative improvement. Very cool. |
Bondman agree with schubert but also know what you mean in the case of the OHMs specifically. I’ve been on a mission with many upgrades and tweaks in recent years to max them out and get the sound just right. Have not touched a thing in a couple years now and come home from dealers and show demos perfectly happy everytime. I did acquire a Chord Mojo DAC I use with that system sometimes now with Iphone or Ipad as source and that provides a slightly different windows on the music in every way compared to my older mhdt Constantine DAC which is also no slouch just different. I do enjoy the ability to hear differences in gear especially when it all sounds splendid. I’ve had the same experience in my second system (within its limits) with other quality speakers, Dynaudio, Triangle, even an old pair of tiny Boston A40s from the 1980s I refoamed a while back. |
@schubert - I agree with you for the most part, but my previous speakers sort of hit a plateau at some point, where I felt that upgrades to my system, room, cabling, etc., were not really being reflected by the speakers. That's why I got rid of them and bought the Ohms. I felt that I had taken them as far as they could go. Surely there are limits to the mismatch (money-wise) between speakers and gear. You wouldn't put a pair of $40 speakers from Dayton Audio in front of a $50,000 system, for example. Sure, they would sound as good as they possibly could, but that isn't very good. Beyond a certain point, upgrading electronics begins to have deminishing returns with a given set of speakers. That experience is why I am so pleased with the Ohms, which do allow improvements in the system to produce better sound far beyond what I had thought was possible with them. That's a prejudgement I erroneously made based mostly on their price. |
That is true of any decent speaker . The speaker is not the most important thing .
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Just a heads up and preview... The Ohm Walsh 2000s continue to amaze me. I am making progress in sorting out some system issues that have been plaguing me since last fall. Although I am not completely out of the woods, I have made some progress. Part of all of this was a serious upgrade of my amplifier. Once again, the 2000s have responded wonderfully to upstream upgrades. Even though I am using a temporary crossover to my subs that lacks transparency, I have been enjoying a huge, and I mean huge, increase in dynamic range, fine detail, expanded soundstage dimensions, clarity (especially in the treble range), extended decays of notes, better "continuousness" and a better disappearing act than ever before in the 9 years I have owned them. My system is now on an entire new level, and competitive with much, much more expensive rigs. I couldn't be happier, and I expect things will be even better once all of my issues are resolved, hopefully in a few weeks. I will post here when this happens.
I know John Strohbeen and the folks at Ohm want to demo their speakers with lower-priced gear at shows, since that is how most potential customers will use them, but, man, do these things really shine with better electronics. My preamp alone listed for ~30% more than the 2000s. The amp, if bought new, probably similarly priced. Not a penny of this is wasted on the Ohms. Really incredible. |
I also find reflections behind the speakers can be beneficial. I have large sliding glass door with vertical blinds behind my F5s in my main system. Opening or closing the blinds or doors changes the soundstage and imaging but not in a negative way. Open blinds provides a more central focus to the soundstage. Opening the door reduces bass energy somewhat. However no early reflections are ever beneficial. Thes have a smearing effect on all aspects of the presentation. Those are the only ones I try to categorically avoid. Others are integral parts of the resulting sound and can be tweaked accordingly as desired. |
@enginedr1960 - As I have posted elsewhere, I find the reflections off my 60" plasma that is mounted to the wall behind and between my 2000s to be beneficial. I tried covering it with a quilt, but it sounded worse. I think part of it might be that my listening area is too small for the 2000s to breathe. The plasma TV gives the sound more bounce, so to speak. YMMV, of course. |
Engine, good idea! I might have to try that next time I try using my OHMs in my second A/V system where I have 2 flat surfaces in relative close proximity to the drivers, big screen between and slightly to rear and 6’ tall audio cabinet immediately to the right and rear of the right speaker. Inside the grille or outside the can could both work.
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I have discovered a trick with my 2.2000 s by using 3/4 thick felt under the grill in the inside rear corners I corrected the reflection off my 60 " TV screen that is placed in the center between the speakers . Using felt inside the grill controls dispersion of the driver . |
Sorry I just noticed your posts, @blueranger . I have my 2000s shoe-horned into a pretty tight space, so I cannot verify your 9-12 foot apart issue. I have some CD cabinets that are only about 6 to 10 inches from the Ohm caps. I do have them pulled fairly far into the room and away from the side-walls, and they are only about 6 feet apart. Could they sound better in a bigger room. Perhaps, but I doubt I will ever find out. They did sound pretty good at the Chester Group Audio Show last November, where they were in a larger, less cluttered room than mine, and further apart, around 9 feet, IIRC. |
Oh the speakers are 2 1/2 feet out from the long wall 9 feet apart. |
Just to confirm others opinions on OHM 5000 speaker placement, I have realized the proper placement in my room. It is 20X12X8. It has drywall and carpet. I have 3 corner bass traps and 4 acoustic panels. 2 behind the speakers and 2 above. The 3 bass traps sit on 2 apple crates a piece full of records. I have acoustic blankets in front of my windows behind my listening position and also across the hinged double doors. My twin Billy Bags audio rack sits between my speakers on one of the long walls. My speaker controls are set for small room, corner, medium perspective and plus treble. If I place the speakers closer to be walls the bass becomes boomy. I have tried the speakers on the short wall firing down the long part of the room. The bass is solid but the stereo imaging suffers and the two speakers sounding somewhat mono. Correct me if I’m wrong but I’ve read somewhere that the bigger OHMs need to be 9-12 feet apart to sound their best. This goes against the golden cube speaker positioning formula. Anyway I hope this helps with anyone who is new to OHM speakers and has a rectangular room. I could remove my rack from between the speakers but it would be a big move with me moving 1200 records out of the dedicated music room. if I removed my stereo rack would I get enough improvement to maybe make it worthwhile? The speakers sit out about 8 inches beyond it. Any thoughts or opinions welcome. |
Thanks, peterr53. I was beginning to worry about you!
Merry Christmas, Happy Chanuka, and Happy New Year to all. |
Sorry for the silence, but I’ve been working, making mulla. So the
build got put on hold for a while....
I will let everyone know when I’m back in the saddle, meanwhile
Merry Christmas and good Holidays....
Looking forward to some Swedish Gravlax hmmmmm 🇸🇪 |
peterr53,
How's your DIY Walsh/omni speaker project going? Any changes, advances, or innovations? I've got a set Ohm Walsh 2XO cans in great shape that I thought I'd be able to find an old set of cabinets on which to mount them. After a couple years of looking and posting WTB (want to buy) notices, it appears that isn't going to happen. Hence, I'm really curious about your cabinet and crossover ideas.
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Bondman,
I can't believe you're talking about an audiophile haven in River Vale, NJ!! I grew up in River Vale, a little more than a stone's throw from the NY State border. It's so small; it's almost never mentioned anywhere. Even people from other towns nearby often didn't know about it. Too bad I have no one left there now to visit. I'd love to hear those German Physiks! That's the closest I'd likely ever get to them.
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I've read some similar positive comments on the OHM setup at the NY show on some other recent threads here.
Yes I have always liked Electrocompaniet gear that I have heard. My phono step up transformer is an older Electrocompaniet unit that my dealer sold me used for a good price to help mate my Denon DL103R cart to my ARC sp16 pre-amp when I bought that from him.
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John Strohbeen and associates made a great showing at the New York Audio Show over this past weekend. They had a pair of 2000s (the ones I have owned since 2009), powered by an Outlaw Audio 2160 receiver, fed by an older Oppo universal player and a Blue Sound Node 2. The speakers were heavily toed-in due to the bright nature of the room. The sound was excellent, rivalling many more expensive rooms at the show. There were a lot of show-goers who sat quietly(!) for extended listening, and one guy who went through a whole bunch of CDs he'd brought along. People were clearly impressed by the wall of sound, extention at both ends of the frequency range, and excellent detail retreival coming from the diminutive 2000s. Just to compare, one system which I admit I did prefer to the Ohm system was the Electrocompaniet system (a brand I have always admired), which was easily north of $50,000, probably north of $75,000. But the 2000s gave about 80% of what the Electrocompaniet system did, at a total cost (excluding wires) of about $4500. Fantastic! I hope Ohm gets some good press out of this. I saw at least one audio journalist there, Steve Guttenberg, so, let's hope. |
My wife and I had dinner at the Hilton Friday night after arriving in Rockville. Afterwards we walked through the quiet Atrium checking things out (show had been over that day for a few hours) and a gentleman with The Audio Company greeted us and offered a private listen to the "Million Dollar" VAC Von Schweikert system in their feature room off the Atrium. We of course took him up on it and got the private screening. Needless to say it sounded great and my wife and I were very impressed. The rep was very gracious! My wife was ready to write the check!
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Thanks for your thoughts, Mapman. BTW, interesting story behind the German Physiks: The designer of the Dicks Dipole Driver specifically set out to design a Walsh driver without the cost constraints that Ohm works under. IOW, a no-holds-barred Walsh bending wave design. The results speak for themselves. The entry level German Physiks lists for ~$14,000, so if you can find a demo or used pair, they might be affordable. On the GP web site, there is a DDD driver unit for sale without a bass driver or cabinet, that you pair with a woofer/subwoofer. Someone better at this stuff than I might be able to save a few bucks with that.
All that said, I remain thrilled with my Ohm Walsh 2000s. At least I will be when my amp gets back from the repair shop. |
The Mojo sucks me in and makes me smile every time. Have only used with headphones so far. Seems to bring out the best in most everything. Will try in my main system soon. |
How do you like the Mojo? I have been pondering buying an ifi Black Label DSD DAC, for home use, not portable. This is a a direct competitor to the Chord.
I really like the German Physiks. That dealer/distributor is Larry Borden's Distinctive Stereo, a home-based dealer in River Vale, NJ. I have been there with my audio club and heard the GP speakers. Very impressive, and Larry, a former reviewer, knows how to set up speakers. He is also a really nice guy. The New Jersey Audio Society is meeting there again in January. Let me know if you would like particulars. You can see his very large demo room, and meet some of the crankiest, funniest audiophiles in the country! Merrill of Merrill Audio is also a member of our group, and attends many of our meetings.
+1 on the Vanatoos. I heard them a couple of years ago, and decided if I ever need a pair of compact, powered speakers, they're it.
I think I am going to try to go to the CAF next year. I have a brother in MD who would probably join me. |
No. I was very tempted but had no real need what with two larger pair already.
I did buy a Chord Mojo portable DAC and a nice aluminum 45 record adapter and some music.
Also I got to hear German Physiks for the first time. Those are speakers I could live with but very pricey. The sound was spot on in every way running off Merrill Class D amps. They had a prime spot in a somewhat larger room that was right off the atrium. They have a new US distributor located in North Jersey so perhaps they will start to make a bigger showing here now.
I also heard Tekton for the first time. Double Impacts I think., I liked those very much as well. 10 watt tube amp had them playing nicely in a smaller hotel room. These could be the ticket for someone with a lower powered amp that wants more sound for the dollar. Not a lot of WAF appeal though. I found the sound very engaging. MEAT ON THE BONES which so many smaller setups often lack and perhaps just a nice smidgeon of warmth. Only problem with these larger speakers in the smaller room was I could hear location of individual drivers though the overall soundstage and imaging was quite good.
The Vanadoo powered speakers sounded very good for their size and represented a very good value. Also had a nice discounted show price as did Benchmark again this year (10% off)
In all most rooms had good sound. Class D and tube amps were often the culprits and hard to distinguish without looking. One or two rooms perhaps that I thought clearly under performed.
I still say these shows need to promote more of a range of gear at various price points to draw more people. The vast majority of gear was very pricey still well beyond what most normal people would consider. Lots of good sound but I found myself often questioning the value proposition. Very nice show for an audiophile in any case.
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Map - Did you buy them? I saw a nice pair on ebay recently with starting bid at $900. I bought a somewhat beat-up pair of MW Talls a few years back for $375 - Audiogon seller in Brooklyn, so i picked them up myself. They are my surround speakers. But $500 for a minty pair is a deal.
Agreed - Joseph Audio makes some great speakers, which you can appreciate if he is not blasting them at 120 dB, as he often does. |
Nice used pair of microwalsh speakers in Joseph audio room at cap aud fest today. For $500. I’m tempted. Jos audio again one of the best sounding small rooms at the show. Other show specials there as well including a nice pair of used Bel Canto ref500 amps. |
rodm_2001 - Thanks. I actually prefer a gradual roll-off of the high frequencies. The 2000s do in fact fit that bill. In fact, a recent cable upgrade has made the 2000s brighter, alsmost too bright. A borderline situation. I do have a decent amount of room behind the speakers, and a little less on the sides. Also, my ceiling is only 6' tall. And my low frequencies are surprisingly smooth and extended without any EQ, thanks to a pair of subs in the front corners that were designed(!) to go in the corners. When I get my amplifier back, I will revisit all of this. |
bondmanp, If you don't have an ideal room geometry and you can't have a wide gap between the speakers and the front walls,
the room correction definitely helps in cleaning up the lower frequencies. Most audio gurus don't recommend room correction for higher frequencies but in my personal experience with the Ohms, the boost in the higher frequencies is a welcome change.
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rodm - innteresting. Your post made me realize that when I hooked my 2000s up to that Pioneer AVR, I was using the Pioneer’s MCACC, Pioneer’s fairly effective room correction software. I normally do not have the Pioneer in the 2-channel chain, so stereo music listening is done without room correction. Hmm. You know, until this month, my system has been pretty much the same since 2011. Looks like some changes may be coming, provided I can find the funds. |
I've had my Ohm cylinders for a little over 4 months now and wanted to share my thoughts with folks that already have Ohm speakers and those who may be interested in purchasing Ohm speakers.
I use the Dirac room correction software that comes with my pre-amp (receiver).
In my opinion, the room correction does wonders for Ohm speakers. Depending on the geometry of the listening room and placement of the Ohms in respect to the surrounding walls, the Ohms can sound a bit boomy, the room correction really cleans up and tightens the bass. On the high frequencies, the Ohm speakers are also a bit soft. When I looked at the frequency response curve, there is a clear drop beyond 10Khz, which I bumped up a little in Dirac. I have compared the equalized vs direct signal on multiple occasions and the difference is very noticeable. The bass gets much much cleaner and the high frequencies also get "brighter". Overall, I would not want to use them as studio monitors but the Ohms certainly have a lot of good attributes. The soundstage and imaging of these speakers are flat out amazing. you can listen to very broad range of music genres with these speakers and it does an admirable job. In my opinion, these speakers really shine when you listen to live music recordings. A little bit of bass management and bump in the higher frequencies go a long way to make these speakers an absolute blast. I would also like to mention that I am by no means a seasoned veteran in audio gear critique. In total, I have had 7 pairs of speakers and the Ohms would definitely be my favorites so far. |
Apologies to all for my last post. The Onkyo was merely "different" and not at all "better." I should know better, damn it. Sorry.
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Audio can be f*****g weird. I’ve got "world-class" tube gear and have been powering the Micro Talls with that. Until tonight- I hooked ’em up to a rather modest Onkyo home theater receiver, and damn, they sound better! Much better. Go figure.
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Well, knock me over with a feather. I have been running my 2000s with a pair of Vandersteen 2Wq subs and M5-HP crossovers for a few years now, and loving it all. But Monday night, my amp messed the bed. So, I had to disconnect the speakers and subs, and run the 2000s directly off the amps in my cheap Pioneer AVR (VSX-1120K), with no subs. Figuring I should skip any serious stereo music listening and stick to background music and films, I put on the EDM channel on FiOS while I checked my email. Wouldn’t you know it! While the bass was not as powerful as with the subs, some of the EDM has really deep synth bass, but the visceral low bass was all there with the 2000s being run full range. It was really clean and well defined, too. Really amazing for a speaker of this size and price, especially with mediocre source gear and compressed audio. It was good enough to make me look up from my email checking a few times and turn up the volume. I may have to repair or replace my amp, but the Ohms definitely stay! |
rodm-2001 - Glad to hear your experience mirrors those of myself and other Ohm owners. Not really a surprise, though. Just remember, every change you make upstream will make itself known when you listen through the Sound Cylinders. And remember, your Ohms are still probably not fully broken in, although they are probably 2/3 to 3/4 of the way there. It will get even better, I bet. |
Hi Guys,
I have had my Ohm super sound cylinder for over 6 weeks now. I ended up purchasing a Nord One up class D amplifier to provide it with some more juice. The Arcam SR-250 receiver did an OK job but now I can tell the extra power helps tighten up the bass. Overall, I am very happy with my purchase. Thanks to everyone that helped me with making my decision. As you guys know, these speakers can get pretty loud. I was very impressed at how loud they can get without getting distorted or sound compressed. As for the bass, I am more than happy with the amount of base I am getting. I gave up my 10" powered subwoofer and have no regrets at all. |
Hey Mapman...
I rarely get queasy watching a video but that porn view of the system did me in lol
..........🇸🇪
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That review brings my back over a decade to early 2005 when i first broke in a pair of microtalls. Still using the same set of speakers. Always considered upgrading to larger models but haven’t had the space or the desire to box and send them from the west coast. Maybe just get new cans, idk still love these version one models. |
Ladies and Gentlemen..
I didn't go anywhere, but between what the Dr. seem to think is a
bad case of carpal tunnel syndrome, and hotter than Hades here in
SoCal, nothing has happened since last time I posted on these pages.
I spoke to the sales department at ESS and they invited me in for some listening with my own CD's. If the ESS driver sounds as good as most people think it does, I most likely pull the CC out and make it official...
Anyway I cross my finger for some cooler weather as it's a total pain to work in 90 degree plus weather shop.
Stay cool my friends........🇸🇪
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Marantz...
No fake news here.....🇸🇪
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I have been watching the "Bosch" series on Amazon Prime and his speakers look like Ohms. Not sure what turntable he uses. |
Hehe...
It was a joke....REALLY boys.
Something about the 5th.....🇸🇪 |
*Looking @ Peter, somewhat askance...*
Well, 'one', yes...warm, not hot....
The 'other', the 'more typical' version...batteries do 'funny stuff' when heated and insertion not recommended...;)
..but whatever boats your float.... |
On the cylinders the Ohm logo is placed where the tweeter is located. |
IIRCF, I think all Ohm Walsh speakers have a sticker somewhere indicating the front of the speaker, the cylinders should, too, I think. |
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I honestly wrote it just to see if anyone would have as dirty mind as I
do and voila'. Busted within minutes.
The basic idea......you got it......right?
The question is should you pre-heat the flashlight for better
performance....🇸🇪 |
