The Cartridge arrived and I took it down to Studio City to Acoustic Image to have Eliot Midwood set it up properly. Eliot is the bomb when it comes to setting up the Well Tempered turn tables correctly.
http://www.acousticimage.com/
So, last night I had Mr. Golden Ears over to get his assessment as well. For a brand new cartridge that had zero hours on it ... all I can say is WOW! This is one naturally musical cartridge that doesn't break the bank. Its everything I liked about the OC9-mk III, but it goes far beyond the OC-9 in every respect.
In a previous post, I talked about the many mono records I own and how good the OC-9 was with the monos. Well, the ART-9 is on steroids. Just amazing on mono recordings.
At under $1100.00 from LP Tunes, its a bargain. The ART-9 surpasses all cartridges I've had in the system before. That would include Dynavectors, Benz, Grado Signatures and a Lyra Clavis that I dearly loved. In fact, its more musically correct than the Clavis. The Clavis was the champ at reproducing the piano correctly ... the ART-9 is equally as good in this area.
Sound stage, depth of image, left to right all there. Highs ... crystalline. Mids ... female and male voices are dead on. Transparency ... see through. Dynamics ... Wow! Low noise floor ... black. Mono records ... who needs stereo?
Your assessment that the ART-9 doesn't draw attention to itself is dead on. You just don't think about the cartridge at all. Not what its doing, or what its not doing ... its just beautiful music filling the room.
Thanks again Pani for the recommendation. I'll keep posting here as the cartridge continues to break in.
I've got just over 40 hours on the ART9 now and it's beginning to open up as other posters here have mentioned. I liked it right off the bat but I do hear improvements now in the top end especially. Love the open, detailed and relaxed sound. To my ears the cartridge has the same profile that others have already described - concise, detailed and "correct."
Ultimately I plan to do some more detailed comparisons with my other carts but I committed the cardinal sin of changing a few things at once (phono stage, tonearm wire and the ART9.) All of them require between 50 and 100 hours to break in so I'm on a marathon record playing binge at the moment. I'll post more here when everything's burnt in and I have a better basis for commenting.
Pani - the Zyx is a universe premium. It's amazing but also so expensive (even if you get a deal on it) that it sort of requires you to get another cart as a 'daily driver'. The trouble there (and it's a first world problem if ever there was one) is that my other carts don't measure up after hearing the zyx uni. I'm using a Denon 103r and a Dyna XX2, both soundsmith retips, and an Auditorium 23 transformer with the denon. They are both very very good carts but the ART9 is already way more enjoyable to hear in my system.
So the question is - can the AT ART9 serve as a second cart to the Zyx, that's still relatively inexpensive compared to other contenders from Benz, Lyra, etc? So far so good....
Last night I removed the ART9 from my turntable and swapped my Dynavector DV20X2L with Soundsmith ruby cantilever and new line contact stylus. Honestly I never gave that one a chance for some reason.
The ART9 sounds great on the best recordings but after I played more of my collection I noticed that it had tendencies that were leaning toward the dull / dark side of things. Possibly a system synergy issue but the ART9 seemed to be breaking in in the opposite direction I was expecting. Even though it has ~ 20 hrs of use I do not have the patience / confidence that it will truly open up to the extent I prefer. The midrange is recessed and the treble falling off a cliff.
The Dynavector / Sound Smith sounds fantastic and just what I was hoping for and will stay put for now.
^^^ Now that's interesting, avanti. I believe your experience is due to the fact that you admittedly do not have the patients/confidence (what ever that means) to wait until the cartridge is fully broken in. 20 hours is not even breaking the surface on what the ART-9 will do when fully broken in.
You're passing judgement way too soon. I don't believe you are experiencing a "system synergy" problem either. What you are hearing on your "best recordings" is the promise the ART-9 holds once broken in.
In all of the years in this hobby, I have yet to hear a cartridge that does everything to my satisfaction with less than 50 hours of break-in time ... the ART-9 included. Most new cartridges I've had take all of those 50 hours and some much more.
I'd say put the ART-9 back into the system, run it for 100 hours, then take out some of the recordings that you are really familiar with and play them again. You may be surprised.
I'm happy to report my 1 1/2 year old ART 9 just got a long overdue stylus cleaning with the magic eraser.
The entire cantilever had built up gunk and the once clean diamond was lost in the crud.
A couple of dips, brush away the stray micro fibers, the cart looks new!
If I ever wear the ART 9 out, I will buy another one. No need to spend more UNLESS I have a significantly upgraded table and system. Then, I would just get the ART 1000!
@avanti1960 I would agree with Frank on this - you need to give it more time. I noticed a real change in the sound right around 40 hours. Things open up and get clearer and airier. If you've come this far I'd give it even just 20 to 30 hours more before you send it to the cartridge drawer.
Don't think it's a strange thing happening to the ART9. As I said over on the other forum...Your carts sound will continue to change untill it reaches its top performance. It's no where come into its own. Some times the sound will be awful. Some times splendid. Once it's getting in the 70℅ range it will normalize. Have patience....It will be worth it.
And this is something that is true of not just cartridges, but other electronics as well. My last two ARC amps, both the REF-75 and the REF-75se took over 500 hours to sound their best. And just like you said, it changes from listening session to listening session. One time you think its broken in a little bit and the next time its taken a backward step. Power cord and IC's do the same thing. Even the turntable belt that I ordered from originlive had a break-in period. In the belt's case I could actually hear it break in over about a one hour period. Slightly improved over the stock belt initially, but an hour later? ... Zowie!
I wonder how do you guys remember the sound of the first 20-50 hrs after 500 hrs of listening without direct A/B comparison test? After 500 hrs you can not come back to the sound you got in the beggining, so it is all just an illusion of our faulty memory (at least a part of it). Of cource burn-in make sense, but it can’t make your device totally different. I don’t believe in this sh***t.
Maybe it’s better to buy used cartridges or used electronics then. Most of my cartridges sounds good or bad in the first listening session after the alignment is finished correctly. Tonearm or phono stage, loading, cables makes much more different than just a burn-in time. If i don’t like the cartridge on different arms etc, i don’t believe it will be my favorite cartridge after 100 hrs of burn-in period. Do you believe in miracles? I remember couple of my ZYX cartridges i’ve bought new, the first one became slightly better after burn-in period (but no miracles here), the last one was great from the beggining. Later i discovered much better cartridges that i love from the first listening session and i was completely blown away how good they are by listening the first 10 records.
@avanti1960 not just me but there are more people on this forum who have compared the ART-9 to the Dynavector XX2 and I personally have even heard the Dynavector Tai katora rua. The ART9 is in the league of $5k cartridges my friend. I suggest you keep patience with burn-in period. The chances are very high that you will discover some thing wonderful than not. One thing that surprises me is your ART-9 is sounding dark and dull..my friend it sounds exactly the opposite IMO. So it is could either be a issue with burn-in or phono stage loading or use of non-shielded cables between tonearm and phonostage. Try to look at these issues my friend. I am not doubting your listening ability but I really feel something is amiss with the way your ART-9 is sounding.
BTW, I like Dynavector cartridges in general. The XV1s is a cart that I would like try some day. So, it should not be taken as my preference for AT over Dyna as a house sound.
I've read through this excellent thread and have a question. Has anyone used the ART9 with a Linn tonearm, specifically an Ekos? I apologize if this has been discussed but I did not see any references to using this cart with a Linn.
Chakster....Some guys who can hear simply write down what they hear and experience at the moment and revisit the notes later in the appropriate listening session. But the key...You have to be able to hear.
Broken in: Sound stage wide open with amazing 3-D imaging, soaring highs, tunefully correct bass lines, super present mid-range and great music like Bach's "Air on a G string" just makes you want to cry.
^^^ This applies to most electronics, cables, fuses, new turntable belts (yes, turntable belts) in need of a break-in period, including cartridges. This, you can measure with your ears.
@jcoehler I have tried the ART-9 on 3 different tonearms ranging from the weird 47 Labs RS-A1, Immedia and SME M2-12. My friends have it on Jelco 9" and the big Thomas Schick tonearms. It works well with all of these tonearms in my experience so I suppose the Ekos should not be a problem.
What's the best sounding turntable preamp for this cartridge?, I have a vintage technics 1600mk2 turntable, after a year of research, this cart is my pick, alot of people has recommended ear top flagship moving coil preamifcation.
Chakster....Some guys who can hear simply write down what they hear and experience at the moment and revisit the notes later in the appropriate listening session. But the key...You have to be able to hear.
That makes sense if you are Michael Fremer and working on review, but analog or even digital recordings would be a better "documents" than just notes, so you can actually listen to those documented recordings to compare the quality of the raw new cartridge and fully burned-in cartridge. Personally i would never do that.
It is such a boring waste of time when you have to listen to some new cartridge that sounds awful when it’s new and doesn’t impressed you at all in the first 30 hrs. Especially if you have a better cartridge. I think this is exactly what happes, reported by @avanti1960 ?
Another question is why do you think the ART-9 is the cartridge for everyone? What’s the hype about it? And why it should be an MC cartridge? Audio-Technica made so many killer cartridges in the past, their MM cartridges from the 80s are spectacular (AT-ML170 OCC and AT-ML180 OCC) and goes nose-to-nose with Technics 100c mk4 for example. Those cartridges will cream most of the todays MC cartridges of any price.
My friends have it on Jelco 9" and the big Thomas Schick tonearms.
Starange choice of the arms for this cartridge, even lower compliance ART2000 doesn’t sounds right on my Schick tonearm, but the ART9 has higher compliance (18 @ 100 Hz) than ART2000 (9 @ 100 Hz). Thomas Schick tonearm designed for cartridges with compliance below 22cu @ 10Hz maximum! Actually Shich works better with very low compliance cartridges. But the ART9 compliance converted from 100Hz to 10Hz would be as much as 30cu (which is high).
@chakster you're building your argument on straw men.
It is such a boring waste of time when you have to listen to some new cartridge that sounds awful when it’s new and doesn’t impressed you at all in the first 30 hrs.
no one said that. Most say it starts out great and then gets better. That's what I experienced. You yourself wrote that break in makes sense. I agree with you. It's like a new guitar or a violin. It needs to be played a while before it hits its real potential. You stick with it because you can hear from the beginning that it's a good instrument, so it's worth the effort. Nothing strange about that.
That said, I agree that this thread could/should be more than just cheerleading for the ART9. There's no professional review of this cart available (as imperfect as they often are) so it would be nice IMHO to have some attempts at objective description and comparisons with other carts. I will attempt to contribute to that myself when my ART9 and Doshi phono stage are... em... broken in.
Broken in: Sound stage wide open with amazing 3-D imaging, soaring highs, tunefully correct bass lines, super present mid-range and great music like Bach’s "Air on a G string" just makes you want to cry.
This applies to most electronics, cables, fuses, new turntable belts (yes, turntable belts) in need of a break-in period, including cartridges. This, you can measure with your ears.
According to this logic and your description all new cartridges we are buyin’ sounds very bad and we have to live with this bad souding gear for a long time (just to burn-in those gear for up to 500hrs sometimes) as you said in another post. That means even if we play records for 2hrs per day we have to wait more than 8 month to finally get the sounds right. This is rediculous! Then people sells their cartridges for example (and lose money), often with just 200hrs on it, because they are not happy about the sound or always looking for something better.
IMO It’s better to buy used cartridges and used equimpent and enjoy them in full effect from the first listening session.
BTW thanks to the new manufacturers like Zu Audio who sells their speakers with factory burned-in drivers.
Thanks for your thoughts and I may add the ART9 back in at a
later date. The hesitation comes from
the fact that I have never experienced a cartridge that brightens up again after
it has already smoothed out from the initial brightness.
@pani
I believe you about the ART9 but I am enjoying the Dynavector
with Soundsmith ruby cantilever and re-tip quite a bit and it is a big upgrade
from the stock Dynavector. If I had to
make a cartridge recommendation I would say to find a used / broken cantilever
Dynavector and send it to Soundsmith for a new cantilever!
I optimized my phono loading (it seems not too sensitive whether
0 ohms, 100 ohms or 1000 ohms).
My cables from tonearm to phono pre are short (0.5M), shielded
and very low capacitance (19pf / foot) so I do not see any way to affect the
sound to make it brighter.
VTA is a perfect 92-degrees.
The only thing left is break-in.
@oregonpapa
your post summary of "new" vs. "broken in"
sound is giving incentive to reinstall it sooner rather than later.
Stay tuned, this thread has been going on for a year and a half,
i'm sure it will keep going for quite a while.
I should add that my goal for vinyl playback is that it should have the frequency response neutrality and balance of an excellent digital based source- combined with the detail and smoothness that vinyl offers.
When the frequency balance gets too off path then I make changes. Right now the Dynavector LOMC with Soundsmith tip and cantilever comes the closest to that goal.
@avanti1960 when/if you put the ART9 back on your turntable, you might play around with the VTF a bit. I found that the cart began to lose its dullness around 40 hours as I mentioned above. But when I took off .1 grams of VTF (2.0 to 1.9) the dullness came back. I'm guessing it has to do with the suspension progressively loosening up. I hope you enjoy your Dyna in the meantime.
My experience with a new Art-9 was that it showed its basic attributes from day one. It has improved ever since.
It replaced a Shelter 500 with SS OC retip in a VPI 3d arm, and outperformed the old cartridge right away. I mention the arm because of the control it seems to provide. Running the arm-cartridge on the old Shure test record seeking their low Hz resonance reveals none at all.
I have only about 10 hrs. on the Art-9 after 2 weeks (travel, work...life just gets in the way sometimes). I have the loading on my Pass Labs Ono @ 1,000R and have not played with it. I haven't played with VTF either, it is set at factory recommended. The Art-9 is replacing an Ortofon Rondo Red (~$800 MSRP a few years ago for reference).
At this point it sounds like I would expect a good $1,000 cartridge to sound. Right away I hear more detail, and specifically the soundstage is much wider. I can only attribute that to channel separation. Instruments are more distinctly placed in the soundstage as well. There is a slight glare/grain??? in the higher frequencies, but compared to the Rondo the sound is much more open and pleasant.
I am guessing at this point that the glare/grain?? will relax a bit after I get some more hours on it, and that it can be addressed further with VTF and preamp loading but that remains to be seen. I won't play around with it until I get closer to 50 hours on it.
thanks for the info. I am playing lots of records and may make the decision to put the ART9 back on and will take VTF into more critical consideration.
@sebrof
can you comment on the tone of the cartridge compared to a neutral digital source?
@audiolabyrinth As far as I have seen and used, the ART-9 should work well with most phonostages which has adequate gain of around 60db and loading option of 100-120 ohms. Which phonostage do you use ?
@Avanti - In my system I can only compare to my Rega Apollo CD player, but of course I have heard many other good digital sources.
The Art-9 is pretty much the opposite of dull/dark in my system. I bi-amp and have the ability to adjust tweeter vs. woofer/mid levels, and one of the things I have in mind as a possible tweak once I get some time on the Art-9 and begin to mess with it is to knock down the tweeters maybe just a hair. Not sure if it will be necessary, but from what I am hearing now I certainly don't think I'll need to bump the tweeters up.
I haven't heard a really good Art-9 as mine is not broken in or optimized yet so I don't have that perspective, but from what you describe you and I are hearing different things from a "new" Art-9.
Update- 1/14/17 Put the ART9 back on the table. Clearly it does not sound as good overall compared to the Dynavector DV20 but it does some things really well, smoothness and lack of sibilance and a more refined sound and it actually sounds a bit brighter up top than when I last removed it. I bumped the VTF to 2 gms and maybe that helped. It is a promising start and seems to justify the idea to see it through to (at least) the 40 hr mark and re-assess. I am hoping for more low end extension (the DV is excellent), slightly more dynamics, definitely more upper midrange / lower treble presence and less surface noise (not horrible but not as good as the DV). If it can develop along those lines and keep the refined slightly sweet sound than it will be a keeper.
@avanti1960 I may have missed it, could let us know your phonostage and the loading for the ART-9 ? Also, would you know the capacitance of your phonostage input ?
Just keep it going for a month and come back to the comparison with your Dyna, it will be fair to both the cartridges and also worth your effort.
My experience with a new Art-9 was that it showed its basic attributes from day one. It has improved ever since.
Exactly, that's what i mean. Cartridge that doesn't sounds right after 20-30 hrs of burn-in time will not change it's BASIC attributes. And the improvement in the next 200hrs doesn't make one cartridge sounds like another cartridge, it's still the same cartridge tuned/voiced by manufactured to a sertain characted (as Nandric said), but slightly improved mechanicaly.
I'm sure every listening session depends on our mood and even time of the year (cold winter or hot summer when overall temperature is different can effect the sound of the cartridge). I live in the area when the temperature can drop down to -20C for some time in the winter and +30C in the summer.
I agree @chakster - this is what I tried to say earlier. But I have to wonder whether it changes from one cartridge to the next. If you read Arthur Salvatore's description of the Zyx Universe II, he's nearly in tears on first listening to it because the cart sounds so awful. And yet by 50 hours it's the finest cartridge he has ever heard. that's a pretty radical difference. One may or not agree with him in general but he does have a ton of experience and a highly resolving system.
I think the whole topic of equipment break in is over cooked. In my experience the essential characteristics of ANY piece of gear are discernible within the first five hours of playback. Yes, subtle improvements do occur over time--more so with equipment that has mechanical properties like speakers and cartridges. But the idea that the ART 9 or any other quality piece of gear sounds terrible at first and transforms itself to a "giant killer" after hours and hours of play does not square with my experience. Avanti1960 I don't think you have done yourself any favors by switching the cartridge in and out of your system. The differences you are hearing are most likely more attributable to changes in set up rather than hours on the cartridge. I'm not sure you really know what the ART 9 sounds like at this point, nor do I think you are really able to make reliable comparisons with the other cartridges you mention. I'm not here to sing the praises of the cartridge--do I think it is great? Yes. But of course others may be looking for a different sound given their preferences and associated equipment. My point is that there is far too much emphasis in this discussion (and others) on the relevance of break in. Like most cartridges, if you set up the ART 9 properly and don't like the way the sounds after a few hours you probably are not going to like it after 100 hours either.
Hi panic, thankyou for the response, I do not have a phono stage yet, that was the reasonfor the question, like to know the mid-range to state of the art phono stages for this cart.
I've had a number of good to high end cartridges over the years. Every one of them needed time to break in ... the ART-9 included. The ART-9 was the first cartridge where I relied on a person with expert knowledge on my turntable and cartridge setup to set up the ART-9 for me. It was well worth the extra expense.
Prior to using the ART-9, I had been using AT's OC-9 MKIII's which I considered to be one of the major bargains in cartridges based upon what it does and doesn't do.
Upon initial listening to the ART-9, compared to a fully broken in OC-9 MKIII, the sound wasn't "terrible" at all. It was grainy on top and bloated on the bottom. Also, in comparison to the OC9 MKIII, it had a somewhat pinched sound stage, lacked depth and the 3-D imaging was reduced as well. As time went on, the ART-9 opened up and all of the artificial artifacts were gone. It just killed the OC-9 MK-III.
In the area of suspending disbelief, in my experience, which granted, does not include the megabucks $10,000+ cartridges, only the Lyra Clavis that I purchased new and owned for several years could compete with the ART-9. Here's the rub ... The Clavis only did this on "special" nights when the power coming into the house was purer, like at 2 in the morning. The rest of the time, the Clavis called attention to itself in one way or another. The OC-9 doesn't call attention to itself at all. Its just music ...accurate music emanating from the speakers that are no longer there. As far as the musical presentation, there is a lot more "there there."
Not taking anything away from Lyra in general or the Lyra Clavis here at all. The only cartridge I've had that can compete with the Clavis on correct piano tones is the ART-9. The Clavis was truly great at this. My philosophy has always been ... get the piano right and the system will be right. Tonally, the ART-9 would be the overall tonal balance champ. Again, I have not had experience IN MY SYSTEM with the 10k+ cartridges.
Is a new ART-9 night and day better than a fully broken in OC-9MK III? If I had the choice of living with a fully broken in OC-9-MKIII or a brand new ART-9 ... I'd take the OC-9 MKIII. Would I take a fully broken in ART-9 over a fully broken in OC-9 MK-III? Yes, in a nano-second. It really is night and day.
Just as a side note ... Both the OC-9 MKIII and the ART-9 are killers on mono records. I look at that a a major bonus as I own hundreds of mono early released jazz records from the 1950's that were never produced in stereo.
As a final caveat ... the system has been greatly improved over the years since the Clavis was being used as my go-to cartridge. In all fairness, who knows what the Clavis would sound like today? A bit mind blowing I would suspect.
Audiolabrinth, I think if you comb they this thread and other ART9 threads, you'll find a comprehensive list of phono stages used with this cartridge.
What do you mean by mid-range?
Some might call my Rogue Ares mid range ($2k new). The used market is a buyer's paradise right now it seems. I'm not seeing gear move, even at really low prices. Back to the Ares, I am really enjoying it's ability to get out of the way. Very quiet, great soundstage (width and depth) and dynamic. Does not add tube bloom.
The only phono stage I've heard that betters it, costs 5x more... ASR Basis Exclusive. I'm sure there are others but no where near $2k that I've heard. I had a HEED Audio Quasar that was awfully good, particularly for $1200.
I totally agree with @chakster and others who say that ART-9 cannot be for everyone. I also agree that expecting an equipment that sounds awful in the beginning to blow you away later is not an easy argument to buy.
Without showering any more praise for the ART-9 I would like to emphasise why I suggested @avanti1960 to hold on to this cartridge. This is one cart which has replaced at least in my own system some of my "favourite" carts costing 3 to 4 times as much. It is one thing to say "Hey I will take a $2k Ortofon over a $5k Lyra any day", it only means you dont like Lyra. But for me ART-9 has replaced my favourite Ortofons, Dynavectors, Decca and Miyabis. Lyra, Benz and Van Den Hul are not on my favourite lists anyway even though I have heard them in my own system. With that kind of backing I think if @avanti1960 likes Dynavector, he stands a good chance of liking ART-9. I agree that Dynavectors, especially XX2 and below are warmer than ART-9.
If you read Arthur Salvatore's description of the Zyx Universe II, he's nearly in tears on first listening to it because the cart sounds so awful. And yet by 50 hours it's the finest cartridge he has ever heard. that's a pretty radical difference. One may or not agree with him in general but he does have a ton of experience and a highly resolving system.
I'm sure Arthur's ultra hi-end system is better than mine, along with his ability to buy cartridges like ZYX Universe II. I have owned Zyx Airy 3 and later upgraded to Zyx premium 4D (thanks to mehran at sorasound). it was long time ago, but at that time i've bought dedicated Zyx headamp especially for my Zyx cartridge (based on Arthur's review when he praised so much this Zyx CPP-1 pre-preamp compared to many top SUTs). My ZYX Premium 4D SB2 was new and very nice from the start, i didn't noticed huge improvement in the first 50 hrs, can't remember how long i've been using my ZYX since then, but not so long unfortunately, later i have stupidly broke the cantilever! Luckily my back up cartridge was Audio-Technica ART-2000 Ltd. To be honest the price difference between $4500 Zyx (+ special Zyx CPP-1 headapm) and used $700 AT-ART2000 compared to the difference in sound quality between those carts, make me think the AT is a better cartridge.They are both high-resolution superb cartridges, but one can do everything (or a little less) just for 1/6 of the price of another, without hustle with sut or headamp.
Anyway, when some people prefer different sound than Audio-Technica's house sound, i can totaly understand that. For some reason my vintage Argent MC500HS high output MC with sapphire cantilever sounds much better to my ears than any other MCs i have tried, including the most expensive ZYX Premium 4D. Maybe i will change my opinion when i will find something better, who knows.
New ART-9 has arrived, LP gear offers free shipping , but it is slow. The cantilever is dead-on perfect. I will install soon, I feel the need to be extra careful with setup, and report back here. Thank you again for all the advice and support.
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