Pass Labs Point 8 Series info

Here's even more information regarding the new .8 series from Pass Labs, including pricing.

The Pass Labs website now has been updated with point 8 info.

They are missing the manuals downloads for the point 8 though.

The point 8's are just starting to ship.

Soon Mark at Reno HiFi will know what they sound like, compared to the point 5 series.

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Specs for the 600 wpc X-600.8 is class A up to 100 watts 'peak'.

What does that mean in class A watts RMS?
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Is it just me, but is this line getting seriously expensive?

There has been a steady but determined resurgence of the High-End in the past three years. Look at the price increases at Soulution, Raidho, MBL, Lamm, Audio Research, Magico, MIT, Vitus, et al.

The economy is getting better and unemployment is tracking towards 7%. Stock market was up 27% last year. There are a lot of subtle signs that the increases are just starting in many areas of the economy. Read a business journal this weekend.

I had a bad experience with Mark @ Reno HiFi. Surely there's better dealers out there...

And yes, Unsound, it is getting up there in price. But that's the way it goes in high end audio.

Tom6897, I used to work for some the major players on Wall Street, I'm well aware of what's going on. I still think the prices are getting a bit high.

01-16-14: Unsound
Is it just me, but is this line getting seriously expensive?

It's just a reflection of the overall economy. As the middle class continues to shrink and more of the money is passed up to the haves, the market is simply adjusting. It's not just Pass Labs, look around, it's running rampant in the audio industry as well as other industries.

They are, and I appreciate the companies that are keeping their prices the same or lowering them regardless of the status of the economy.

Unsound,

I have and still do. Can't mention the names, but may hedge a bet or two.
Six figure bonuses are about to be distributed to thousands of us.

I completely agree with your comments. I was only trying to offer some
perspective. Prices are on the rise. A modest sign of a healthy economy.
See ya on CNBC!

@Tom6897, I don't know that an economy with a hole in the middle is healthy, but I'm sure it looks that way from the top. The economy doesn't look too healthy from down here. Indicators can be misleading as figures lie and liars figure.

Once the .8 is established, the .5 will probably be discontinued. Once that happens prices for the .5 will drop and used Pass amps will be a relative bargain in the market considering the sonics, build quality and service.

Prices for new .5 product have not gone up in years. Performance of the .8 product is reportedly better, so they can ask for a price increase, and probably get it. Also, much of this stuff is going to Europe and the Far East where relative prices are even higher.

Yes, I can visualize that too. We'll see what happens...it's gonna be an interesting year. Higher in Europe and the Far East for *US* made equipment like Pass Labs. We pay much higher on imports from Europe and Japan.

In a conversation with Pass service a year ago they said 90% of their sales were outside the USA!

I do not see used Pass Labs XA.5 point 5's dropping very low.

There is a big demand for used XA.5's, not so much for X.5's.

They are already a relative good bargain used, now, IMO.

The X1 and XOno used prices have not changed in the last several years, and are now scarce.

People sell what they don't like, and keep what they like.

I am a sceptic of NOS transistors!

There is a fixed supply. Pass can only make so many amps.

What if they sell many more then expected?

Will they have a big enough pool to get very, very closely matched transistors?

Will there be enough for future repairs?

Good points there. They'll have to turn to something else once they run out...unless they can find some more NOS transistors...

Larger heat sinks implies more heat in the listening room. No? With the X600 I regularly listen in my underwear with the AC set in the antarctic regions during the summer.

Good point. AC is a must.

Don_c55, about if they sell more than expected? Easy. They can just raise the price as sales increase. Constrict supply = raise price. Economics.

Don_c55, about if they sell more than expected? Easy. They can just raise the price as sales increase. Constrict supply = raise price. Economics.

I see. Very valid point there.

01-27-14: Abrew19
Don_c55, about if they sell more than expected? Easy. They can just raise the price as sales increase. Constrict supply = raise price. Economics.

NOS transistors will just become as costly as NOS tubes. LOL!!

stranger things have happened...especially in the world of audio.

Price concerns? C'mon. Several of these models have been absolute bargains for years, with the price staying exactly the same for who knows how many years. Yet parts, labor, rent, etc. for all companies has been going up. So, finally a price increase, which could be justified for the product with no improvements based on how long the price was frozen, and it's a concern?

Compared to how they sound, are supported, and are built, relative to the competition many of the .5 models are absolute bargains, and would be at the new pricing.

I don't sell them, I don't make them, so I have no vested interest. But I use them and usually laugh when friends bring over some of the higher priced spreads for comparison.

As for the above comment "Constrict supply = raise price. Economics.", I don't think that is fair when directed toward Pass or other "good guy" companies who have never shown any inclination toward that behavior, like Pass, Vandersteen, Magnepan, Quicksilver, DeVore, to name a few.

Kiddman's post is spot-on and well said.

Hi Kiddman,
I would be one of the last to ever accuse Pass of any unfair practices. On the contrary, based on my admittedly limited experience with them, I am very impressed and agree they do seem to be a "good guy" companies.

I just pointed out that when dealing with a limited supply of parts, raising the price is one way to make the old parts last longer. In my book, that's fair and just sound economics. (of course, as long as it is done in a practical way and not "gouging," which is a different thing that what we are talking about here).

In fact I believe the current new prices have this built in already, so I wouldn't expect them to raise prices much in the future.

However, to call any $10,000 amplifier (fundamentally based on quite old and basic consumer electronics technology) a "bargain" borders on the ridiculous. I'm looking at the big picture.

Re: my "bargain" statement, I will firmly stand behind it. Everything is about context. When we are talking about this level of equipment, the context is the performance level and build quality of Pass relative to other high end equipment of similar sonic and overall quality. In this context it does look like a bargain. Let's take the 350.5. Tremendous power, yet sonic quality that significantly more expensive and less powerful amps have a hard time approaching.

Either the Pass is a bargain, relatively, or much of the competition is ridiculously overpriced. Half full or half empty. I'm not interested in semantic debates. I think you knew from where I was coming without this clarification.

If the amp is based on what you consider "old and basic consumer electronics technology" then I'm assuming you have a high level of expertise in electrical engineering. And if the word "bargain" is "ridiculous" then you must know about costs and profit structures of manufacturing. I would guess you should be able to come up with better at a significantly lower price, and if you do I'll call it an "uberbargain".

What I asked was ".. is this line getting seriously expensive?"
300 Watts per channel $85K
30 Watts per channel $6.5K

For $85K one can buy a fairly decent new Mercedes Benz.

I never suggested that they weren't good, just that they were starting to get expensive. That's all. Yes, I know they aren't the most expensive and yet can compete with those that are more expensive. Still, IMHO the price tags are starting to look a little high. YMMV.

I agree, but you could say the same for other high end firms. Such as FM Acoustics, don't even get me started with them!

I'm with Unsound that it's hard to call $85k a bargain. That said, Nelson Pass is also perfectly happy to help you own his amplifiers at the cost of parts. You just have to make them yourself... and he'll literally help give you advice while you do so.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/
https://www.passdiy.com/

Granted, the newest designs aren't shared, but still, I'm very happy to own a product from a company with this type of value system.

Unsound,why are you looking at the top of the line luxury components from Pass and feeling negative when fabulous, extremely high performance is available, with giant power levels, below $15k? Who cares about "average price tag" if fantastic performance can be had from them at a fraction of top of the line?

And, as far as that 30 watt $6.5k amp, listen to it. You won't believe it. And it has well over 100 watts of power in reality.

I agree. Pass Labs is a solid choice regardless of the prices. You get what you pay for in most instances.

I think the whole-supply/demand simple economic analysis does not really apply here. This is a luxury market where other factors drive pricing. This probably applies more to the XA 200.8 than the XA30.8.

Perceived value, perhaps?