sean...I don't think that I need such a good power cord now that I am operating on my cold fusion electric generator. |
Timwat: You said it, it is about the music. The tech stuff gets a little dry. I will now head back to my sound room for my next concert.
Oh, I thought Corona was a city in SOCAL... |
Eldartford: I hope you realize i was just joking. I'd have to hear and see the results of something like what Corona is talking about to even remotely think about spending that kind of money on "wire". Sean
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Sonic_genius: I think we all fall victim at times to forgetting that it really is supposed to be about the music.
So many threads end up a religious argument about hardware...it reminds me of my days as a freshman in high school, when "I like prog rock and everything else sucks", was constantly at war with the guy carving "Framton rules (sic)" into the desk...who thought everything prog sucked along with the people who liked it.
I have to believe large doses of live music of widely varying genres can mitigate this tendency. But of course, I don't necessarily need to believe this religiously. |
sean...the wire has been twisted...six strands of #12, solid core, thin teflon insulation, with heavy duty plug on the end. It may be a while until I get the test run. When it happens I will report results in a new post. |
Eldartford: How are you going to configure this wire geometrically ? Are you including a ground in this buch of six or are you using 3 hots and 3 neutrals ? Sean
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sean...3 Hot, 3 Neutral, stacked and twisted as a stack. I am using a 3 prong plug and I have a ground wire connected, but since the original design had no ground wire on the power line (there is a separate grounding lug on the chassis) this conductor is not integrated with the other six. |
I would have staggered the conductors and then twisted it. Oh well, i'm still curious to see how this comes out. Sean
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sean...what do you mean "staggered"?
My "stack" is HOT/NEUT/HOT/NEUT/HOT/NEUT/ |
When you said "stacked", this made me think of three pieces of zip cord standing side by side in a row i.e. "hot / hot / hot" stacked on top of "neutral / neutral / neutral" and then twisted. By staggering the conductors, i meant exactly what you ended up doing, i.e. alternating polarity for every other wire. That should work fine from what i can tell. My only thoughts are "good luck" in getting all of these properly terminated into a connector : ) Sean
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sean...When twisted together three #12 conductors were obviously too big to fit even a heavy duty connector. No problem. I soldered the twisted triad together, and then milled it down with a grinder so as to just barely fit the connector. |
El: I'd be curious as to the specific capacitive and inductive measurements that you get with such a cable. Is it possible to either post these specs or forward them to me via email if you have the means to do so ? Sean
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Eldartford:
It doesn't work like that! Mill down #12 to #16 at termination point and you have #16. |
Sean - been at HE2003, but I'm back now. Regarding Goertz, these cables make a lot of sense technically. There is no way to get lower inductance than this. Not sure why Roger would be concerned about the amps. They should be able to drive these - particularly given they do not have any global negative feedback. His concern is probably more about the speakers themselves. |
Corona: While reducing the surface area where the connections mate will reduce the total current capacity of the cable, the blades that go into the wall and the IEC will melt before the "limited" current capacity of Eldartford's method comes into play. Yes, doing so will alter the impedance of the cable, but not enough to negate the benefits that he sought to achieve via distributed capacitance.
By the way, when are you going to support your claims / comments with some hard information pertaining to makes & models ? We are still waiting....
Audioengr: Hope you had a good time at the show and was / will be profitable for you.
I don't know what to tell you about Mr Sander's reaction to this specific brand of cables. I'm simply going by the information that was passed onto me by a very reliable source.
As far as the Goertz cables go, i assume that you're talking about their speaker cables given the reference to low inductance being beneficial. As you are probably well aware, i'm pretty fond of these as a general rule. Minimal skin effect ( they are ALL "skin" ), minimal dielectric ( new models use Teflon ) for reduced DA ( Dielectric Absorption ), heavy gauge for low series resistance, low nominal impedance for maximum power transfer, wide bandwidth, etc... If people don't like how these speaker cables sound in their system, they need to look at why the system doesn't sound good, not blame the cables !!! As far as ways to improve these cables, all they need to do is get some decent connectors on these things. Other than their Silver spades, their standard spades, bananas and pin connectors are junk !!!
If you are still running the JC-1's and can get away with a four feet of speaker cable, i can send you some MI-3's ( 7 gauge / nominal impedance of 2 ohms ) to check out. I had these running from my Kinergetics KBA-202A Platinum Mono-Block's to my Ohm F's. Since i'm not using the mono's right now, you're more than welcome to give them a try. Sean
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Sean:
Like I said before,It doesn't work like that. |
Corona...What I milled down was a 3/4 inch length of twisted-together and soldered triad of #20. I would guess this was about #6 in diameter. About 1/2 inch of this I milled down so it would just barely fit into my heavy duty connector...about #10 size.
Sean...Do we have any impedance or capacitance data for the various highly-touted power cords? If not, I don't see any use for such measurements on my supercord.
To all....If you are a Wizard, and are publishing the recipe for a magic potion it is always a good idea to include some ingredient that is difficult or impossible to obtain. (The eye of a newt collected during a solar eclipse on a Tuesday). Then if the damsel does not respond as expected, you can always tell your client that the potion was not prepared properly. This power cord stuff involves a lot of black magic. Are you wizards? |
Sean:
We have built hundreds of cable prototypes,foil, flat wire,ribbon,square,also, every conceivable round wire configuration.We have yet to find any correlation between inductance,impedance,capacitance and performance. Most of the cable designers,many from the highly advertised arena, all agree on this point. But one thing for sure they are not going to put it in print. Why? Because the consumer believes it to be true. |
Eldartford: I don't know of any manufacturer that publishes specific spec's on power cords. That does not mean that some of us haven't taken the time to take readings on various cables / designs and compiled our own little notebooks. Some of us do feel that there is a method to the madness and the more knowledge / hard facts that we can accumulate on the subject, the less "eye of newt" and "snake oil" you'll need to build a good cable. As such, knowing how your cable measures in terms of absolute values and measurements per foot can give us "techies" a better idea of what you are working with.
Corona: Like i said before, if people are already buying this product, how do you intend to keep the basic design principles / materials secret ? I'm not asking you for a play by play, i'm simply asking for you to verify that such products do exist so that those that are interested can check into purchasing them. If this truly is a "ground-breaking" product and as good as you say it is, why would you want to deny yourself the opportunity to advertise in what is a highly read forum / thread ? On top of this, i'm asking you for info. As such, you won't hear anybody claiming that you're out "shilling for business". As far as i can tell, it would be a win / win situation for you in terms of exposure and potential sales.
As far as your comments go about finding correlations between design geometries, materials used, etc..., i agree with you. Not in the fact that you can't find any correlations between measurable performance & percieved sonics but in the fact that publishing specific technical info would end up demystifying power cords and lower the potential to rip customers off in terms of them finding out just how much "research" and material actually went into building their "beloved" mega-dollar cables. I don't know of any "magician" / "side show charlatan" that is making tall cash "scamming" people that would be willing to give away their secrets to the public for free. After all, once that secret is out and others can figure out how to do it, the novelty and exclusivity have worn off and the price and demand begin to fall. As such, silence IS golden. That is, so long as you can keep the secret. Sean
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Sean:
06-05-03 On this thread I listed the dealers who can provide additional information about the cables. The product names are Ampthrilla and Pre-Thrilla, the company is Sahuaro Audio. |
Corona: I apologize for my idiocy and redundancy. If i can shake loose that much change from my pockets, i may give one of these a try. Sean
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Sean:
I know many are searching for truth in this audio jungle. For years our products have always been at the forefront of cable technology but only recently have we been able to release the audio gene from the bottle. This has been the primary motivation behind my pronouncements. We have so many orders to fill it is going to be difficult to find time to participate in this forum. I do want to say; it has been stimulating conversing with you, Eldartford,Twl,
Viggen,Vetterone and others. If you decide to purchase a cable we have a 30 day money back guarantee, be sure and let me know what you think of the performance along with any suggested improvements. |
