Auditorium 23 SUT
Quack System Upgrades
Ok, so what's the most ridiculous "SNAKE OIL" upgrade you have come across?
Let the fun begin HAHAHA :) :)
160 responses Add your response
crazyeddy, Unless your intent is malicious mischief, a rule should be imposed that one has actually tried whatever they nominate in order for this NOT to be a bloodbath of subjective and unbearably personal ugliness. If your goal is malicious mischief, then we can only hope that the moderators will step in early. Dave |
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"They make no wild claims about technology like some cable manufacturers. " Actually, they do make some wild claims. I asked them about some cables and what to expect if I tried them in my system. They told me I could put them next to some really expensive cables made with exotic materials, and I would hear a tiny difference at best. Most likely, I won't hear any difference. I believe they also make that claim in print on their web site. I put them in my system and compared them to cables costing a lot more, and the differences were big and unmistakable. Anyone could hear the difference. Blue Jeans cable clearly didn't perform as well as my expensive cables so I label them snake oil. If they were to say our $25 cables can compete with others costing $40 or $50, I would say that sounds reasonable. But up against cost no object cables, they're statements are wildly misleading. I know better, as I'm sure most of the people here do as well. But a new person just getting into audio could easily be sold on Blue Jeans claims. They don't yet have a point of reference for comparison. So, if they just stay with Blue Jeans cables, they may never realize they're systems full potential. Yes, we all know that some expensive cables are overpriced snake oil, but it has to work both ways. Just because they sell low cost items, doesn't get them off the hook. |
Interesting concept mb1, One could argue that that the cables sold by Blue Jeans are the identical wire that most likely a good amount of the music we listen to were recorded with. So then somehow cost no object cables are reversing the effect of the cable used in the production of our music and then providing a more realistic rendering of the original production on replay? |
If your systems full potential requires special expensive wires and different bits of wire between components actually materially affect the performance then it says a lot about the equipment design and build quality and/or your equipment choices. Good quality and well designed equipment should be highly sensitive and revealing of the source and not the wires used to connect equipment together. Audio 101 basics in design and quality. |
@dlcockrum This is meant to be a humorous post Dave, not out to stir up anything at all, and don't mean to. Lets just have some fun and laugh. I'll add one of my favorite Snake Oil advertisements to give you and example of where I'm going with this. Please read the whole thing. https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2016/09/20/the-far-corners-the-skin-effect-and-albanias-organike-cables/ My apologies to anyone who misinterpreted my intentions. Just out for a bit of humor, and a chuckle or two. |
"This is meant to be a humorous post Dave, not out to stir up anything at all, and don't mean to. Lets just have some fun and laugh." Understand crazyeddy. My post was the fourth and already things were turning personal. Lots of history, you see... It is good to see that things are staying in a good place since. Best to you crazyeddy, Dave |
Blue Jeans Cables are great. Especially if you consider overall value (price to quality to performance). I have personal experience with their speaker wire and RCA interconnects. If you put them in a system compared to much more expensive wire and perceive a "big and unmistakable" difference you should call into question which set of cables is reproducing the sound correctly (measurably closer to faithful reproduction of source) as opposed to which you merely prefer. |
Shadorne 12-26-2016Good point, Shadorne. My perception has been that audiophiles often tend to overly conflate the ability of a component or system to resolve musical detail with its ability to resolve differences in hardware or tweaks. Obviously there can often be some relation between the two, but assuming everything is of reasonably good quality the correlation between the two is far from perfect. An obvious example illustrating that point is that a speaker having challenging impedance characteristics will tend to be more revealing of amplifier differences than one that is easy to drive, yet that says nothing about which speaker will provide better resolution of musical detail or better sound quality. By the way, I've been meaning to say that it's good to see you back here lately. Best regards, -- Al |
almarg Shadorne 12-26-2016 Good quality and well designed equipment should be highly sensitive and revealing of the source and not the wires used to connect equipment together. Audio 101 basics in design and quality. "Good point, Shadorne. My perception has been that audiophiles often tend to overly conflate the ability of a component or system to resolve musical detail with its ability to resolve differences in hardware or tweaks. Obviously there can often be some relation between the two, but assuming everything is of reasonably good quality the correlation between the two is far from perfect. An obvious example illustrating that point is that a speaker having challenging impedance characteristics will tend to be more revealing of amplifier differences than one that is easy to drive, yet that says nothing about which speaker will provide better resolution of musical detail or better sound quality. By the way, I’ve been meaning to say that it’s good to see you back here lately. Best regards, -- Al" Of course, there will always to those who rail against cables. That’s why the cable controversy has been around full tilt boogie for what, almost 40 years. However, like a lot of controversial things in this hobby, the naysayers often simply have not gotten up out of the noise floor or for some other reason, you know, have not broken through to the other side. Made the scene, week to week Day to day, hour to hour The gate is straight Deep and wide Break on through to the other side Break on through to the other side Break on through, break on through Break on through, break on through Hey hey hey hey Hey hey hey hey hey |
" One could argue that that the cables sold by Blue Jeans are the identical wire that most likely a good amount of the music we listen to were recorded with. So then somehow cost no object cables are reversing the effect of the cable used in the production of our music and then providing a more realistic rendering of the original production on replay?" I've heard this argument many times and I've never understood the logic behind it. Cables use in a playback system have a different job to do than the ones use in a recording studio. Do speaker companies make brass tweeters because that's what cymbals are made out of? Most people would agree that a playback system is supposed to recreate the original event with as much transparency as possible. We all know that this is done with varying degrees of success, but that's the goal. If a cable used in a recording studio has a certain coloration, you don't use the same cable in the playback system, you use cables and components that are transparent so that the system can reproduce the sound of the cable in the recording studio. What happens if they used more than one type of cable in the studio? |
" Blue Jeans Cables are great. Especially if you consider overall value (price to quality to performance). I have personal experience with their speaker wire and RCA interconnects. If you put them in a system compared to much more expensive wire and perceive a "big and unmistakable" difference you should call into question which set of cables is reproducing the sound correctly (measurably closer to faithful reproduction of source) as opposed to which you merely prefer." Wouldn't calling them great be a bit premature? According to your own post, you first need to determine what cable is reproducing the sound more correctly? "measurably closer to faithful reproduction of source" I've been waiting my whole life for someone to show me how to do that. Maybe you'll be the first? |
I would not bang on Blue Jean cable that much here. I also wouldn’t say that it’s snake oil. First thing, it’s the job of any dealer/manufacturer to try to sell their product, so if you ask them if their product is better than a different product, they are obviously going to try to influence you to think their product is better. They are a distrubitor of Beldon and Canare bulk cable. I have not tested Canare, but Beldon cable is a mixed lot. The Audioholics site is a big fan of the Beldon 10awg speaker cable and they say you don’t need anything more. However, under testing, I found the Beldon to be completely lacking and the standard 12awg stranded OFC speaker cable (basically monster cable) out-performed the Beldon. The Beldon cable just sounded lo-fi and did not have the resolution of even the 12awg stranded OFC. However, I do find that the Beldon digital products are excellent. Both the HDMI and Digital Coax cables perform excellently. I have not tested these against super-exotic thousand dollar cables, but they have actually performed better than some Neotech HDMI and Audioquest silver digital coax cables. In this case, Beldon and Blue Jean cables know what they are talking about with regards to digital signal transmission. |
yes, add the gizmos that levitate cables up above the floor I've seen claims that the floor pushes static electricity into the cable Again, the post above about poor electronic design is relevant... and what about the snake oil around wooden equipment stands? Finally, I am wondering how a $30,000 DAC makes things sound better |
Sorry guys, I had no intention of this getting serious. My wording of the post probably could have been a little better. I was hoping for stuff like Nigel Tuffnel's Marshall amp that goes to 11 (Spinal Tap) or a product like Organlike Cables. See link below. https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2016/09/20/the-far-corners-the-skin-effect-and-albanias-organike-cables. I was hoping to share some laughs, not serious debates. That being said, What Snake Oil upgrades (that are obviously not real) have you come across. Lets try to keep it funny folks. I like to laugh :) |
Along the humorous line, does anyone know if machinadynamica is real Or is this a "tongue and cheek" humorous web site? (perhaps administrated my Nigel Tuffnel himself) I saw a few months back an add they had for beach sand or pebbles (can't remember which) that were supposed to be used for something or other. Isolation perhaps? |
crazyeddy OP 68 posts Along the humorous line, does anyone know if machinadynamica is real Or is this a "tongue and cheek" humorous web site? (perhaps administrated my Nigel Tuffnel himself) I saw a few months back an add they had for beach sand or pebbles (can’t remember which) that were supposed to be used for something or other. Isolation perhaps? They’re real if you want them to be 🤑 |
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https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2016/09/20/the-far-corners-the-skin-effect-and-albanias-organike-cabl... That was a disgusting read to be sure. I'm still trying to figure out if that's satire. |
" auxinput270 posts12-26-2016 3:25pm I would not bang on Blue Jean cable that much here. I also wouldn’t say that it’s snake oil. First thing, it’s the job of any dealer/manufacturer to try to sell their product, so if you ask them if their product is better than a different product, they are obviously going to try to influence you to think their product is better." If you don't want to bang on BJ cables, that's your decision and I respect it. But I call it like I see it. They made the claims, I put their cables to the test and I found that they were the ones making the wild claims. Its not my fault they oversold the products. They play the game just like all the other companies. |
I have one about cables, though not about the claim that "audiophile" brands provided better sound than do others. All companies have to create a market for their products, and in the 1980’s one emerging player in the audiophile cable business did so by claiming a cable using the "golden ratio" formula for the size of it’s conductors provides better sound than one that doesn’t. He also claimed that higher frequencies tend to propagate down thinner wires, lower frequencies down thicker---like an electronic/mechanical filter or cross-over. Frank Van Alstine is an old-school EE who relishes debunking what he considers false claims, and he viewed George Cardas’ claim about wire gauge and frequencies as one. So at one CES Frank proposed to the Cardas team that he plug a cable made from only the thinnest wires Cardas uses into a wall power outlet, and one of the Cardas people grab the other end---you know, to see if the 60Hz electricity would travel through the cable, electrocuting the person holding it. They silently stared back at him at him, the sound of chirping crickets filling the room. The fact that the Cardas claim for the sonic superiority of the "golden ratio" formula in cable design and construction may or may not be factual is a separate issue from how Cardas cables sound, of course. Wire gauge is only one factor in cable design, but Cardas made it a very important, in fact the MOST important, element in his cables. |
Funny that this subject comes up from time to time. Having an advanced engineering degree, many of these tweaks fail the smell test, wreak of alchemy, and cause my internal BS meter to peg and flash wildly. Many of them seem designed to separate a fool from his money. That being said, I have often been shocked to find that many of them cause noticeable effects on the sound of my system. Not always in a positive direction but an irrefutable change in sound. So, as is so often found in life, you have to try some of them to see if they actually are effective. |
rlawry Funny that this subject comes up from time to time. Having an advanced engineering degree, do tell. Which one? many of these tweaks fail the smell test, wreak of alchemy, and cause my internal BS meter to peg and flash wildly. Many of them seem designed to separate a fool from his money. do tell. Which ones? That being said, I have often been shocked to find that many of them cause noticeable effects on the sound of my system. Not always in a positive direction but an irrefutable change in sound. do tell. Which ones? |
@mb1audio02 Your assertion as to Blue Jeans cables wild claims is, by your own admission, something "they told you". I’m sure you would agree that it is conceivable you misunderstood what you were told. Not saying that you did misunderstand, just a possibility. So, can you point to something written on their website that makes a wild claim? This way there is no (or less) ambiguity involved. To your claim BJC has no point of reference, much of the data is already in the public domain. For instance, in my view this data sheet certainly does provides a frame of reference. https://www.belden.com/techdatas/english/5T00UP.pdf. May I see the data sheet of the cables that you claim significantly out performed the 5T00UP ? |
"If a cable used in a recording studio has a certain coloration, you don't use the same cable in the playback system, you use cables and components that are transparent so that the system can reproduce the sound of the cable in the recording studio. What happens if they used more than one type of cable in the studio?" Good point. I have read that the studios (no actual experience) use Belden, Canare, and Mogami, or a combination thereof. I don't buy into the argument that studio engineers who make their livelihoods recording music would not invest more in cables if they thought it would improve their finished product. Think of the monster $s they make. Just like any manufacturer of a product isn't going to use less than satisfactory raw materials and expect a quality final product. I'm not referring to a Grateful Dead on tour scenario where durability is all that matters. Of course, trying to convince someone that the most reasonably priced good cables on the market aren't snake oil is bound to fail. " Where's the funny stuff?? C'mon guys, lets have some fun. I can't be the only member who enjoys a good amount of levity." "Not going to happen. I didn't get what I wanted for Christmas yesterday, and I'm pissed." Funny, Happy New Year! |
