Quick question for the Cables Don't Make a Difference Crowd.

       Trust me on this one...

                           Uh huh!

       "The only thing worse than a lawyer..."

               Well: you know the jokes.

Feynman's views are where we should start but in life, decisions have to be made (or else made for us).  In my professions in law, real estate and finance as well as medical and food decisions for family, I have to have conclusions I can act on.  So, based on the information I have at the time, I make a decision.  I've forgotten more than I know. 

As to an all in one system, it serves the purposes for many or most music lovers. For me, I chose to collect the music I want to hear often first, then the equipment to best enjoy their reproduction.  I am not a perfectionist, just an average guy who is a polymath intellectual. It's my orientation, not my intellect that drives me to know more.

unreceivedogma

Trust me on this one: I know far more about the 1st Amendment, Public Forum Doctrine etc than you likely ever will ... Let’s see how long it takes for Tammy to pull this down.

You seem confused. This forum is about audio and music. This thread is about cables.

@cleeds It was also me being cheeky I was not really serious. I am middle of the road on cables, they should not impede a systems performance, anyway some took it way too serious I see. Now it’s about the Constitution. Yikes I really banged out a doozy. 

@fleschler -

Feynman's views are where we should start but in life, decisions have to be made (or else made for us).  In my professions in law, real estate and finance as well as medical and food decisions for family, I have to have conclusions I can act on. 

                                             To be clear:

            Feynman's, "views" won him a Nobel in Physics.   This: for his work in Quantum Electrodynamics (1965), which contributed greatly, to our understanding of how electricity functions on the subatomic level.

            Whether accepted by some, or not: the principles are used in the designs of the better cabling, many of us enjoy today.

            Some of his earlier (1940s), "conclusions" WERE acted upon, and largely responsible for ending WW II, regardless of one's agreement with the method.

            Beyond those: he helped develop the punched card system, used for data entry, in the early days of computation.

             I'll stick with his philosophies and record (far as successes/achievements), "in life", to emulate (thank you).                                     

                                          Happy listening!

@unreceivedogma 

I read your link. The court sure likes to poke and prod but your side got them across the finish line in the end.  If you are DC, then your list of other cases is interesting too.  It seems your day job is not so different from what too often goes on here.

Odd question, since the answer doesn't have anything to do with whether someone follows science or snake oil. 

Odd answer.

Bad question-- assumes absolutes when there are none.

I'll bet, you will never be able to rank a set of different cables by price even if one cable costs $200 (a reasonable price for a high quality build and materials cable) and a $10,000 cable. Confirmation bias and the placebo effect are the bane of this hobby. Hearing is funny. People "think" they hear a this thang or that ALL THE TIME and they are often wrong. Trouble is, they're also never in doubt. Either you can reliably discern qualitative differences without bias (know what they are) or not. I'm betting no one can. I have a high end system, believe in quality, and basic acoustic principals -- I choose not to believe in specious claims made by companies that are often raking in obscene margins based upon same. But, hey, it's a free country.

Fluid Dynamics when applied to multi-land highways and interstates with average rush-hour traffic gives one plenty to consider when in 'slow 'n go' states, @rodman99999  ;)

     Lots of, "bets" and assertions from wesheadley, lacking one iota of documentation or anything (in the least) demonstrable.

     Then their: "I choose", leaving the ubiquitous, "TRUST ME!", to be assumed.

     Don’t waste a microsecond, reading the blather from the deaf, delusional, and divergent (from fact).

     No one can tell you whether/how your system, room and/or ears will respond to some new interconnects.   There are simply too many variables.

     The only way you’ll know for certain, is try them for yourself.

     The least expensive way: contact the guys at The Cable Company and take advantage of their lending library.

     For a pittance, you can try a few of their offerings and the rental fees are applied to any purchase made.

                       Whether to explore/spend further: up to you!*

https://www.usedcable.com/interconnect-cables.html?dir=asc&order=price

                       https://www.thecableco.com/lending-library

              *YES: the USA's still a free country (thank a Vet)!                                                                                                Happy listening!

 The least expensive way: contact the guys at The Cable Company and take advantage of their lending library.

     For a pittance, you can try a few of their offerings and the rental fees are applied to any purchase made.

Only if one resides in the USA.

Having emphasized that point, being in Canada I am a satisfied customer of usedcables and they offer a 30 day full value exchange if one is unsatisfied with their purchase. 

I don't think czarivey is familiar with the A-B comparison test.

Many of us, I think, have a limit on what we will pay for cables - either out of necessity or choice.  I know to my ears that cables sound different.  Finding outsized performance within a reasonable price is my goal.  I have about 6000 total in speaker, IC, LAN and power cables in my reference system.  Some listeners have more than that in a single power cable.  I do though wonder how many listeners who truly have listened to more expensive cables than their current low expenditure truly opt to spend less?  If u have never spent more than a couple of hundred bucks on cables it's kinda hard to know whether more expensive cables sound better or not.

Why don't you all just completely eliminate cables by buying an all in one with powered speakers using Wi-Fi or BT?  
 

I didn’t read thru the entire thread but I’m just curious…

wouldn’t you still need at least one power cable to feed that all in one? That just begs for a power cord upgrade doesn’t it? 

@audphile1 

Cable guys are funny. That's why they named a movie after you.

rockysantoro

140 posts

08-31-2024 at 10:25am 

The cables don't make a difference crowd should not be allowed to post their misleading crap on Audiogon,it's obvious they don't know what they are talking about.People new to the hobby will read this,and will miss out on the joys of having great cables in their system.

 

 

No doubt posted without a hint of the irony.

The only system I've ever heard that didn't have any cables or wiring at all was an old phonograph player. It worked, but I prefer cables.

3,000 years of Alchemy can't be wrong....

@twhitezzz -

       How sad, that your your awareness of the sciences, since the 1900's, is so (blatantly) deficient.

                                        "Alchemy"?     

                                          HARDLY! 

       You're simply another charter member of The Cargo Cult. 

                                           KUDOS!

                                           a rewind:

Cargo cult science is a pseudoscientific method of research that favors evidence that confirms an assumed hypothesis. In contrast with the scientific method, there is no vigorous effort to disprove or delimit the hypothesis.[1] The term cargo cult science was first used by physicist Richard Feynman during his 1974 commencement address at the California Institute of Technology.[1]

Cargo cults are religious practices that have appeared in many traditional tribal societies in the wake of interaction with technologically advanced cultures.

     Do a bit of research and you'll learn those primitives were limited in their understanding of what they saw with their eyes, based on their prior experience, education and BIASES.

                                                A rewind:

                 It isn't that the Denyin'tologists are ignorant.

               It's they're knowing* so much, that's WRONG.

                       *heart of the Dunning-Kruger Effect

                                              OR, two:

     The Church of the Naysayer Doctrine (like every other faith-based, religious cult) has as many dopes as it does Popes.   

     Bring up anything resembling SCIENCE/PHYSICS, dated later than the 1800’s and they become apoplectic, not having the formal education to comprehend the concepts, or- possible ramifications.    THAT would be hilarious, were it not so pathetic!        

           Gimme That Old Time Religion, Gimme That Old Time Religion, etc.

        At the very first mention of something as simple as Wave Function (a BASIC tenet of Quantum Mechanics), the Cargo Cult will label you a KOOK.

        But remember: they can only view/understand you, based on their limited experience, education and BIASES.

         They have overlooked the fact that, if not for the hypotheses/theories and experimentation, regarding Quantum Mechanics: a plethora of modern conveniences, medical devices and the gear they so love, would not exist.

          Had scientists, chemists and inventors shared the doctrines of the Cargo Cult (Denyin'tologists), there would be no semiconductors, computer chips, LASERs, or Magnetic Resonance Imaging devices (MRIs).

                                         Solid State amps?

                                     OOPS (back to tubes)!

                                        Your Smart Phone?

                                        FA'GET ABOUT IT!

                                         Your car's GPS?

                                                NOPE!

    Then too: some may be willfully ignorant and just enjoy being contentious.

                        Others: obtuse, uneducated*, misinformed?

      *Typically, from what's been exhibited here: H.S. STEM, if that, would be a safe inference.

      Either way: the result, when the Cult begins its rhetoric, is a classic demo of the Dunning- Kruger Effect.

                                          But, I digress: 

       Bring up those pesky details, regarding the likes of QED, Dielectric Absorption, Poynting's theorem and possible application/effects, relative to frequency, that our musical signals are carried via photon or wave, outside the conductor and you're a KOOK?

         Again: the Cargo Cult can only understand anyone with an actual background, experience and education in Physics/QED, based on their beliefs, education, experience and biases

                                      Remember this?.

     One anecdote  that some may find interesting: their walks in the woods and how Feynman's father would encourage him to look beyond the fact that something in nature exists,  into WHY and HOW.

     It saddened him that while attending college, during a visit home and one of their walks: his dad asked what he was learning in college.

     At that moment, he realized: if he tried to explain what he was learning, there was no way his dad could understand.                               

                            It wasn't an insult or condescension.

                                                Just reality.

                              Oh well: let 'em go build a runway!

                                                    references:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applications_of_quantum_mechanics#:~:text=Examples%20include%20lasers%2C%20electron%20microscopes,systems%2C%20computer%20and%20telecommunication%20devices.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chadorzel/2015/08/13/what-has-quantum-mechanics-ever-done-for-us/?sh=37c459944046

https://uwaterloo.ca/institute-for-quantum-computing/quantum-101/quantum-applications-today

          But: I'm a kook, because I believe in the SCIENCE, from which all that sprang?

     https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/five-practical-uses-spooky-quantum-mechanics-180953494/

           Einstein got that last one wrong (Quantum Entanglement), BUT- I still wish he'd been alive, when the Hubble Telescope proved what he considered his, "greatest blunder" (his inability to bring symmetry to his field equation, without lambda).

  https://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200507/history.cfm#:~:text=Einstein's%20original%20equations%20had%20been,how%20the%20universe%20will%20end.                                            How about that?

Another example of a hypothesis/theory, with no way to MEASURE, what you're sure must be there, in some detectable way, or another.

                                               Just for fun:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/6-times-quantum-physics-blew-our-minds-in-2022/

                                            Happy listening!