"I speak the truth."
I listen to records 90% of the time and consider them superior to CD.
Anyone who makes the quoted statement is full of it. Opinion is just that. There is no "truth" involved.
Wendell |
Wt4158 & Astralography
Thanks for chiming in. This infor really is helpful to me. I was at a big box electronic store that does have vinyl but a lot of the records are pretty recent re-issues. The earliest release was from 2008. Are ree-issues done in this time going forward teh bad ones?
Now I saw some re-issues that had the sticker on them that these albums were re-mastered by MFSL at 1/2 speed from the original master analog tapes. So I guess this is BS? Are the master analog tapes played at 1/2 speed and then dumped into pro tools? |
I'm sure most of you here know this.. but for those that don't, almost all the re issues they are putting out on vinyl these days are coming off digital sources. They are either cutting directly from a source like a CD or are dumping the original magnetic tapes track by track into something like digital pro tools and reworking the mixes. Once you digitize the sound wave.. say good bye to the true quality.
I don't know how loud I can scream this, but you simply CANNOT put back into the music what has been taken away by ANY kind of digital sampling.
Being an artist and record producer myself, I am always shocked at how much we lose even dithering down from a 24 bit mix to 16 bit going onto a CD.
I really have to have a chuckle at people that spend 50K or more on a system that is basically playing standard CD's.
You are always limited by the sound source, and all CD's are junk because of the 16 bit process.
While I have no problem with some light clicks and crackles on my vinyl, I understand that some coming from the digital world might find this distracting. A better option is to go into the world of open reel to reel recordings. Pick your poison. Crackles of vinyl, a thin layer of tape hiss on reel, or the horrible sound of CD's.
I heard the latest so called high fidelity digital files in a high end audiophile appointment only shop in SF, and was not impressed.
If you want great sound.. you have to keep the analog stream away from ANY digital conversions.
Not trying to rain on anyone's parade here but
I speak the truth. |
most modern(non Japanese) Vinyl is garbage in terms of pressing quality . Sadly some of the re-mastering we are seeing now (eg Neil Youngs Harvest ,Steve Hoffmans Rumours ) is fantastic, but they dont press like the good old days . Im just about given up buying New Vinyl and focus on SACD or sealed Vinyl from Ebay from the pre 90's era . Of course anything pressed in Japan i get , even their new stuff.Im amazed record companies turn a profit with the amount of vinyl that gets returned . Over the last 2 years Id say 10 -20 % of new Viny is a f**** joke in terms of pressing quality so this has become an expensive hobby.PS none of us in the 1970's washed their records and it was a blast to listen to without all the bull*** tics , pops etc we have to put up with today . (dynaflex /Styrene and some 70's US oil crisis era Vinyl excepted |
WOW! I thought it was me! I even had VPI exchange my bearing 'cause of a ka-whump sound. I never really thought about it primarily being my new records, but it is. The new single sided 45-RPM Norah Jones is excellent however. I think I'll mainly concentrate on buying used vinyl... |
I am sooooo glad you started this post. I've been collecting seriously since the mid '80s (most my pressings are from the UK btw), and whilst this resurgence in vinyl is definitely a good thing, I have been hugely disappointed with the QC on a number of new releases/reissues.
Brand new records, on 180 or 200gm that have pops and clicks right from the get go. from the very 1st play. I can only wonder that the new crop of small pressing plants out there just don't have the experience to work with this very sensitive medium and are thus producing sub par vinyl. I only hope they get better and improve their QC - but we as the end users must get this information out somehow. |
i think it's bad pressings. older records are not getting this problem no matter how many times they are played and cleaned.
I think I am going to concentrate now on finding older records in great shape. |
I have that re-release also i I agree, I was totally disappointed, a waste of money. |
I totally agree, just about all my newer reoords (purchased within the last 2 years) are noisier than the ones I bought in the 80's. The worst was the re-release of pink floyd DSOTM. Extremely disappointing and almost turned me off of buying any more new vinyl.
Rainer |
Vinyl from the late seventies and early eighties is pretty quiet in many cases |
I was using the MoFi as an example. The older Japanese pressings are much better.
Many of the new reissues are not even remastered. The older originals, even though this comment is very general, in many cases are better. IMHO. |
I just bought a new issue Cassandra Wilson jazz LP. The sonics are good to excellent, but there is a constant low level background noise, like a whooshing or what I would call "tube rush" throughout the LP, audible most during the spaces between tracks. I know that it is not tube rush or anything else generated by my system, because the noise is not there on any other LP. I'm going to give it a washing, but I don't expect this noise will be eliminated by cleaning; I think it is recorded on the LP. Has anyone else heard this or something like it? |
Eldartford ,my point is comparing Classics mono re-issue of this fabulous music with a great original release.
Classics re-issue is a pale mediocre effort at best and should not be purchased.
I see on Acusticsounds this particular mono re-issue is for sale for $90.00...hmm.
I have many other vintage pressings that were released in stereo and some have been directly compared to re-issues of this decade.
I can tell you they got only very few right with a couple surpassing an original that I have on hand.
As long as people keep buying them, they will not learn what their doing wrong...but then again. |
Mono playback is sensitive only to horizontal movement of the stylus, whereas stereo is sensitive to both horizontal and vertical. It is well known that low frequency rumble is mostly vertical, and is eliminated by mono playback. However, it seems to me that many kinds of defects in the vinyl would be more vertical than horizontal, and therefore would also be minimized by mono playback. |
It is a mystery what this generation of recording engineers and owners of these new labels are thinking about.$$$
New methods, 180 and 200 gram vinyl, differant formulas and processes that they say is the best available for producing vinyl pressings....No don't think so.
One fantastic mono recording comes to mind that Classic re-issued and totally screwed it up is Ella Fitzgerald, Clap Hands Here Comes Charlie.
Looking at the original release there is nothing special about the record itself, played with a mono cartridge the fa-nominal music with extremely low surface noise and the level of recording quality would bug your eyes out.
Anyway, anyone here that reads main stream music reviews see any indication at all of anyone running down most of these new generation pressings of the past few years? |
Do you have the double Lp or the 4 single side Lps of Alexander Gibson?
Hi, the one in the Picture is the latest from CR, Gibson in 45 Clarity Vinyl. I have the first 180gr Reissue in 33rpm, the 45 set in 180gr, the 200gr pressing I avoid whenever I can, and that one is their latest. It is - in my opinion - worse than the ones above. Ticks and Pops are in the grooves, even with my RCM I can minimize it, but some are still there. But it is more silent than than the latest before. I think, the Vinyl they use is good, but the cooling process.... is not made from someone who takes care or knows how to do it really right. From the Sound, well, when you don't know the others, it is good. But I am not really moved. You hear the limitations in the High Frequencies, it is not from the Mastering, I think, it is the old tape (or a played to death copy from it. How long does CR offer this record now? 14 years?) |
I was having this issue and realized I was tracking (VTF) at the lower end of mfg recommended tracking force. Increased the VTF to max of the recommended and all noice gone. |
>>10-21-09: Tzh21y
Even the new mofi is not as quiet as the old mofi.<<
MFSL is hardly the standard by which vinyl noise should be measured.
Many of them really suck. |
You are absolutely correct. The vinyl is getting noisy. Even the new mofi is not as quiet as the old mofi. The japanese pressings are still pretty good |
Simple fix when using carbon brushes- use the moist air in your body by exhaling on the brush, like you were going to clean glasses. It will collect dust better, also. If you do it correctly, you won't have a static problem anymore. |
even with the pops, i would take vinyl over digital any day, no comparison. Digital really does sound much thinner and hollow in comparison. I have never heard a great digital front end sound as good as a moderate vinyl one. I'll struggle through this and listen to all the music, instead of the digital sample. |
Over time that happened to most of my treasured vinyl albums. My experience is that a great analog set-up beats a great digital set-up when the analog side has everything at the apex of performance. Unfortunately, that apex is virtually impossible to maintain over time thus swinging the quality experience over to digital on the long haul. |
Stilskin, good point, it does only seem to be on the newer records. Let me test that, thx. |
Macdadtexas
Curious problem your having, is it a specific re-issue label you are having a problem with or is it a variety of new label pressings and re-issues?
For the most part I think these new record labels now a day's the people behind them do not know what they are doing.
Like so many things today, I think past techniques and knowledge was simply ignored and discounted as archaic,or even misunderstood.... this is the state of the present and future of this hobby.
My record collection spans five decades with some of my favorite music pressed on thin vinyl released back as far as 1953 with excellent sonics and zero play back problems.
Syntax
Do you have the double Lp or the 4 single side Lps of Alexander Gibson?
Classic Record re-issue of the R.C.A. Living Stereo of Belafonte Returns to Carnegie Hall 33 1/3 including the box set on 8 single side Lps At Carnegie Hall are revelatory.
What they did so right with these re-issues is a mystery, with others that are known to be equally great recordings they messed up.
|
When you do the Zerostat, can you ever see static going out of the LP? The fibers on my micro-fiber cloth stand up until I hit the record (and cloth) with the Zerostat and then I see them relax. When you do the final blast with the ZS, make sure nothing is touching the LP.
Look for some sign that the ZS is working, like seeing if the LP will raise the hairs on your arm prior to application and not do so afterward.
Dave |
Yes, SE should not be too static-y except for the fact that it is so hot and humid that you run the AC 10 months of the year. That can dry things out a bunch. But I thought I was addressing that with the Zerostat, Audioquest brush, and GruvGlide. Also, the problem gets progressively worse with sucessive playings on individual records. It's a pain in the A__ |
I tried a new one this year, that's A good one I hope, it will not become noisy after some runs. |
The primary further advice I have is to consider the anti-static treatment that you use at playbck. The AQ brush does add a static charge that you need to release with something like Zerostat.
Be careful with the GruvGlide and use it only very lightly only on problem disks.
I use the AQ brush, follow with a micro fiber cloth and finish with the Zerostat. I don't know which part of Texas you're in, but when I lived in West Texas my static problems were as big as they now are in Colorado. In Dallas I had a lesser problem and mostly in the winter. In East Texas I suspect you'll have no problems with static.
Different styli do make a difference. Soundsmith's strain guage and top end moving iron cartridges produce less surface noise by raising the resonant frequency of the cantilever out of the hearing range. Stylus shape also has something to do with what you'll hear.
Dave |
Vinyl quality became inferior, Quality control is not on par, I stopped buying new records last year. The RCM can't compensate it when the Vinyl itself is noisy (in the grooves or in the mix).
The better your System is, the more frustrating it will be. Buy some records from the 80's, you can play them endless without any noise. There you can hear that your System is ok. |
I have an audio buddy who had a similar problem and then he changed from an elliptical to a 'conical' stylus, which according to him is easier on the record groove then others. I must admit, the sound is wonderful and the noise is gone. It doesn't matter what he plays, you almost never hear a tick or pop. I have thought about doing the same, but I really don't have that big of an issue with noise. I don't know what cartridge you use, but perhaps you can try a different stylus shape? Conical styli are certainly making a comeback, along the idler drive tables, pick up heads etc., etc... |
Hello,Have you checked your ground wire ? John |
Given the care you have given your records have your checked the stylus? Have you changed phono cables?
Just throwing stuff at a wall and seeing if any sticks but based on your use of cleaners and history perhaps it is not the record. |
Shelby Lynne "Just a Little Lovin" first pressing was defective. It had alot of noise, especially in the right channel. They repressed it and corrected the problem. I got it when it was originally released and complained to the label and they sent me the repressing.
For the broader problem, some new vinyl is simply crap and no amount of cleaning will help.
Wendell |
