Do you feel the REL or the Velodyne has an advantage over the other at higher XO points, say at 100Hz or so?
Thanks for posting that fine review. I still own a Rel Storm 3. Great unit.
Footnote: I listen to some organ music, but have almost zero knowledge and sophistication about the genre. Almost all of what I've listened to has been something by Bach, starting, of course, with Toccata and Fugue in D Minor. It must be fun and exhilarating to be be able to command a powerful organ as you do. For me, that's just a pipe dream.
Very nice balanced review. I read that REL's direction under Sumiko is for future products to include digital software-based EQ & xover features similar to the Velodyne DD series. Also, Velodyne has recently unbundled its microphone, spectrum analyzer, digital xover and other software-based features into a standalone box that can be used with any manufacturer's sub. So these sub manufacturers appear to be converging.
I am currently using a Velodyne DD-15 in a 2CH system that I plan to combine with my HT system. The Velodyne DD is reasonably well suited for dual use. This can be done with the HT processor's front L/R outputs as inputs to the 2CH system's preamp during HT play. With the processor set full-range for front L/R, there is no need to use the .1 output to the sub. The DD series allows customizable presets with varying xover, EQ, phase, sub volume level, etc.. One can switch these around as necessary for varying programs such as CDP, TT, King Kong, or dinosaurs.
Have fun, Dave
Thanks for the writeup. It's definitely reassuring. I live in Belgium and own a Stampede. It's the smallest of the ST series, and one of three of the fifth generation ST's (the last ones designed by Richard Lord) - one of the biggest differences from the older ones being that it has an IR remote control for configuring all settings.
I spoke to someone at Sumiko shortly after their buyout. They basically said that they didn't feel that the added cost of the remote control and its related logic were worthwhile. That was part of why they discontinued the ST series and introduced the B series. I kind of suspect they felt that the 100, 150, and 200 watt amps of the ST 5's might not be impressive enough to sell in the US HT market.
Anyway, I am extremely pleased with my Stampede. It melds seamlessly with my Mangepan MMC's, and the combination is really outstanding. It's mainly used as a stereo hi-fi setup, but still works pretty nicely for the occaisional DVD as well.
As far as I can tell, the ST series is still available over here, although I've been told that the ST 5's will never be introduced in the US. If I bring my Stampede to the US, I guess I'll either have to wire for 230V or use a transformer. I do like it enough, though, that I think I may pick up it's bigger brother, the Storm V, while it's still available. My local dealer did mention something about getting incentives from his distributor to move the ST stuff.....
I am not so convinced by this review on the ST series. I have read quite a few reviews from dissapointed buyers, saying the exact opposite. Nothing like as good as the older range, depth and slam not up to previous audiophile standards.
My view, don't believe the hype. Listen before you buy, and try it at home before handing over the cash. I preferred the older understated units, real wood, down firing. No wonder they fetch good money second hand. If the newer range is better, why ain't folk out there queing up?
"If the newer range is better, why ain't folk out there queing up?"
Could be a lot of reasons. Better marketing from Velodyne and JL and others?
I have heard the B1 more than once, and it is completely awesome. The reviewer is right, they are similar to the old ST series (incredibly tight and fast), but even more dynamic.
I had Velodyne DD15, and I sold it because it never sounded as fast and tight as a REL (ST series or B series).
I'll look into a B3 at some point most likely.
One distinguishing feature of the older REL subs is that they generally all have low group delay (sealed box). This is at the expense of higher ouput capability but is probably responsible for the "musical" sound. (the 12 db/octave roll off actually works well in a room - so there is a lot going for a sealed box and not just "tight" bass)
I have not heard the B-1 but this design is ported - so it may be more competitive with the usual fare in terms of SPL output.
Thanks for the review.
I have been looking to add another (I already have one) to my system to enable me to move the first one from the corner to next to my main speaker(s)or possibly used as speaker stands under them. Those whose qualified opinion I respect say this adds an additional cohesiveness by minimising the time delay in the complex bass info in all instruments & voices as well as deep pipes & synth.
I have used the B1 primarily with speakers that are ported also which may contribute to the success in matching the B1's bottom end to the main speakers (Harbeth SHL5's, Coincident Super Eclise III & Reimer Grand Teton's) . I have also heard that sealed speakers may mate better to sealed subs. As in all things dependent on other factors YMMV.
Enjoy your music!
Jimmy2615: I also love organ music and tuned a REL Storm to very realistic effect. I wonder if you heard the JL Audio f113, I would be most interested in an organist view on that subwoofer since all the magazines are so ecstatic about it.
Thanks for the great review, your assessment has a lot of weight for me because you are an organist.
sorry, just saw your post - no, I have not heard the JL subs. I'm sure they would be great also from what I have read anyway. Some have said for pipe organ music tube/cylinder subs (like the older Hsu's and SVS) are great. But I have not heard those either. I realize that does not help answer your question much... I think overall most well made subs are going to be enjoyable for music that outputs low-freq pitches. At that point perhaps a lot comes down to taste or speakers the sub is mated with.