Speaker positioning and center image depth

I appreciate everyone’s input and resonate with much of what has been expressed. Especially @bobpyle on the wow factor vs trade offs, @walkup with every component/cable making a difference, and @tjag on treating the room properly.

I would be lying if I said I believe that I had my speakers set up perfectly, or all the correct treatments in the right places, or the best components and system synergy. But trial and error has gotten me to a place where the combinations of these things are producing results that I believe surpass many other systems I hear.

This doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate other systems that I hear - in fact it’s opposite. So many audiophiles listen to another’s’ system and are quick to point out its flaws, similar to how @bobpyle points out the wow factors & tradeoffs, but they don’t approach it open-mindedly enough to understand and resonate with the possible wow factors. Everyone has a perspective in which they think is the truth. With audio, there is some directional agreement on what the truth is, but at the end of the day, it is absolutely personal based on an individual’s perceptions. 

I don’t want this to become a measurements vs sonics thread, as I absolutely believe in how something sounds vs how it measures. But it brings me back to my original reason for posting. Much (no, not everything) of what is communicated in reviews and forums to generalize the soundstaging and imaging of a speaker is largely dependent on the communicator’s past experiences with gear (which may be very limited) and the way the speakers were set up in the room, along with all of the other variables shared so far. It is for this reason that I will not let reviews or chatter alone drive my decision on a speaker and need to experience one that moves me (at least in the same brand/line if not the exact speaker) to help me define my convictions of how it sounds. This makes me take what everyone else says about a particular pair of speakers with a grain of salt.

Just last week I tried moving my speakers (Acoustic Zen Crescendo) out 6 feet from the rear wall, as I have read so ofter that this is an optimal distance.  I can't leave them there as the room just doesn't work.  Anyway, I was very surprised at the sound.  The speakers were way into the room, but the music appeared to be glued to the read wall.  Very wierd to be seeing the speakers sitting in one location and having the music coing from far behind them.  Not good or bad, just different.  

Speaker positioning including orientation is very important.   Never overlook it. 

@blisshifi 

Much (no, not everything) of what is communicated in reviews and forums to generalize the soundstaging and imaging of a speaker is largely dependent on the communicator’s past experiences with gear (which may be very limited) and the way the speakers were set up in the room

You're right consider the source of the comments. Those who don't post their systems or what gear is their point of reference should be taken less seriously, IMHO. Over time you'll find a few posters whose prior experiences and preferences will put their comments in a different league of usefulness to you. 

Nothing wrong with anybody sharing any opinion, but with more context, everybody wins. Cheers,

Spencer

bigtwin, I can understand what you have experienced but I think you (and others perhaps) may be missing the point about bringing the speakers out into the room. I'm using a equilateral set up with speakers about 9ft apart and 6ft from the wall behind them. I too have never been able to bring the front of the soundstage out into the room. It is always on the rear wall, BUT the difference as I experience it with most recordings is that the image begins at the rear wall and extends much further behind it. With the speakers closer to the wall this depth disappears substantially with the concurrent loss of resolution. 

And, as I said earlier if you want to hear what your system is really doing, soundstage wise, you need a recording in which the information is embedded. I referred to the Opus 3 recording called 'depth of image' for the obvious reason, but also because the recording is accompanied by the producers description of what you should hear from each cut on the disc. I've heard this recording on a great system and can tell you that it is all there. I've used this recording a a gold standard for setting up my system. I hate to admit this, but while I have worked hard for many years I've never fully achieved it fully. But hearing it initially, over a modest High End system properly set up, was an unforgettable revelation.  FWIW