I would be in the camp that speakers positioning, room size and shape and acoustics treatments have more to do with any kind of imaging than the speakers themselves.
Speaker positioning and center image depth
I’ve been in so many conversations with people who boast of the depth of the soundstage from a particular pair of speakers to fall well behind said speakers, and others who claim the sound is very much more forward for some speakers. For me, I’ve found that most times, it just depends on how the speakers are positioned in the room.
I find a combination of just slightly too much toe in and just not enough distance between speakers in relation to the listener create a more powerful and forward center image and potentially a narrower soundstage as the speakers end up not taking advantage of the side walls. On the other hand, having the speakers toed out too little at a larger distance from each other results in a more distant center image and at times loses clarity.
Distance from the walls also makes a huge difference here, as well as how well the room is treated. And there are many variables that will change the way a speaker projects the sound.
Of course, many speakers do a better job of imaging a particular way over others, but I’m not convinced of generalizations made about these projections (how forward vs deep a speaker sounds) in reviews or forum threads. For me, it usually has much to do with how it’s set up in the room.
That said, I do believe some speakers play incredibly large, and others small such that the thresholds (toe in, distances, etc) are all variable, which help a speaker work in some rooms better than others. And of course every speaker imparts it’s own sonic character, some more open and transparent and others more recessed and warm, etc.
I’m curious as to other peoples’ reactions and experiences with regards to speaker depth/forwardness, and if they agree with what I’m finding or if they believe the speaker has a much larger role than the room the way I am describing. I’m always looking to learn more.
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I appreciate everyone’s input and resonate with much of what has been expressed. Especially @bobpyle on the wow factor vs trade offs, @walkup with every component/cable making a difference, and @tjag on treating the room properly. I would be lying if I said I believe that I had my speakers set up perfectly, or all the correct treatments in the right places, or the best components and system synergy. But trial and error has gotten me to a place where the combinations of these things are producing results that I believe surpass many other systems I hear. This doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate other systems that I hear - in fact it’s opposite. So many audiophiles listen to another’s’ system and are quick to point out its flaws, similar to how @bobpyle points out the wow factors & tradeoffs, but they don’t approach it open-mindedly enough to understand and resonate with the possible wow factors. Everyone has a perspective in which they think is the truth. With audio, there is some directional agreement on what the truth is, but at the end of the day, it is absolutely personal based on an individual’s perceptions. I don’t want this to become a measurements vs sonics thread, as I absolutely believe in how something sounds vs how it measures. But it brings me back to my original reason for posting. Much (no, not everything) of what is communicated in reviews and forums to generalize the soundstaging and imaging of a speaker is largely dependent on the communicator’s past experiences with gear (which may be very limited) and the way the speakers were set up in the room, along with all of the other variables shared so far. It is for this reason that I will not let reviews or chatter alone drive my decision on a speaker and need to experience one that moves me (at least in the same brand/line if not the exact speaker) to help me define my convictions of how it sounds. This makes me take what everyone else says about a particular pair of speakers with a grain of salt.
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Just last week I tried moving my speakers (Acoustic Zen Crescendo) out 6 feet from the rear wall, as I have read so ofter that this is an optimal distance. I can't leave them there as the room just doesn't work. Anyway, I was very surprised at the sound. The speakers were way into the room, but the music appeared to be glued to the read wall. Very wierd to be seeing the speakers sitting in one location and having the music coing from far behind them. Not good or bad, just different. |
You're right consider the source of the comments. Those who don't post their systems or what gear is their point of reference should be taken less seriously, IMHO. Over time you'll find a few posters whose prior experiences and preferences will put their comments in a different league of usefulness to you. Nothing wrong with anybody sharing any opinion, but with more context, everybody wins. Cheers, Spencer |
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