Steve Guttenberg finally reviews the Eminent Technology LFT-8b loudspeaker.

I have a pair of the LFT-16's in black oak with a pair of black oak 24" high stands looking to sell locally in the Buffalo, NY area as I do not have boxes for either. They are truly a nice full sounding speaker.

anyone still have a pair of 4s

Based on Hi fi Shark, used prices for LFT 8b seem to be all over the place.  What would be a reasonable price for a pair in reasonably good condition and say a few years old, including the Sound Anchor stands ? 

Ha! Thanks bdp24...

I will put them up once I replace the woofer mylar.

What do you think is a current good price for the fully operational? I see one in Italy selling for $2300 EURO just this past August, and one in 2019 for $2100...not much data out there...

Ah, okay @john65b, the confusion is cleared up.

I have a pair of the LFT-4, each of which contains two of the three LFT drivers the LFT-6 contains, with an integrated tweeter segment (the LFT-6 has two separate tweeters). If I wasn’t so far away from Chicago I’d snap up your 6’s!

Just realized my typo in previous post...

ET LFT-6 (yes, the IV)

I have the VI, not the IV

They were purchased many years ago and currently in my storage area.

When I recived them, the two woofer panels (one each side) sounded odd - I was in contact with Bruce about replacing the mylar in the two lower woofer panels...other than that they are actually in great condition considering their age...

I am considering selling them as they are, or fixing the woofer panels and then selling. Bruce quoted the mylar replacements are around $300 each and not too complicated to replace - just as long as you know how to open the magnet units without smashing and injuring your fingers...and, of course, how to solder the leads (no issues for me)

I have the LFT-6. They are tall -- taller than my Magnepans...trying to see if I can attach a pic

@john65b: Eminent Technology made both a model LFT-4 (also sometimes referred to as LFT-IV) and a model LFT-6 (or -VI). The LFT-4 stands 56" tall, the LFT-6 78", and both are 18" wide. Which do you have? Less than 1,000 pair of each were made.

Interesting thread...having had most of the speakers mentioned here...but currently running a set of Quad ESL-2805 with HYPEX amps.....

Anyway, considering selling my ET LFT-6 (yes, the IV)....anyone in the Chicago area interested let me know.

Great plans Ric. Let me add the suggestion of using ASC WallDamp in place of Green Glue when making the 3-layer open baffles. WallDamp is very effective at killing panel resonances, and is not expensive: $43.75 for a bundle of twenty-five 4" x 4" squares, enough for the treatment of twenty-five square feet.

Here is my latest thinking on a diy super duper speaker using planars and woofs

http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/DIY_Bi-amped_super_speaker.html

Bi-amped, eqed, flat to 30hz...Super transparent and inexpensive.

@harpo75 I concur that placement is super important with the 8b's. I never got to your level of perfection in terms of placement. I had them out 76 in. from front wall with quite a lot of toe in. And I was never quite satisfied with the soundstage. But I believe if I had persisted, I'd get there as there are many of you who have achieved it. 

I now use the 8c's and with slight toe-in the speakers disappear. The recording venue is palpable. Mind you, I am still fiddling with it, but I  can now appreciate what you mean. 

@rotarius If the panels were visibly rattling, then you would hear dullness. The panels handle the mid-range and the ribbon tweeters the high frequencies only. They do not receive low frequency signals.  If they rattle with bass heavy music, then it must be the physical connection with the woofer enclosure that is the problem. If you read earlier posts by @harpo75 , he has installed stiffeners to reinforce the swaying of the panels not to correct a mistake but to enhance the stability of the sound field, a project that is on my bucket list.

I’ve found the LFT-8b’s to be very critical on setup.  I have mine just slightly toed in.  There is a point where as you listen and adjust the speakers in/out and tilted up/down that all of a sudden it comes into perfect alignment and the sound almost doubles in impact and fullness and the soundstage comes in.  I mean very, very slight movements make all the difference in the world. 
I’ve never had any issue with not enough highs from the tweeters.  In fact I’ve had the opposite issue and have had to upgrade the tweeter caps and resistor (Mundorf) to smooth and tone it down.   The panels or woofer do not rattle, resonate or make any noise.  Most likely yours had an issue in that area and the panels had loose material or something.  And I many times blast my system a lot with prog rock to very loud db’s.  I have added a pair of Rythmik F12’s which sound great with the LFT-8b’s.  Are the LFT-8b’s the perfect speaker?  No but I don’t know of any other speaker in the price range that will give you the magic that these speakers do.  I’ve worked in and out of the high end audio industry since the mid 80’s and have had Quad ESL-63’s, various dynamic speakers, have tried Magnaplaners (never liked), also tried Aqoustats, Sound Labs, old Quad 63’s, Martin Logan and many other electrostatics, etc. over the years.  None are perfect and the ones that come closer to what I’d like are way out of my price range.  The ET LFT-8b’s do sooo much right.  Especially when the crossover parts are upgraded, they can just be amazing!  They can bring you into that arena of forgetting any speakers are there and just being carried far away into the music.  That’s what it’s about anyway.  Of course they will not match ever system or room.  But no one speaker is for everybody.  Also everybody has different tastes!

I bought the LFT 8B many years ago and was horribly disappointed.  They were nice if all I listened to was piano trios.  The woofer was way underdamped and the highs were dull.  The panels rattled at moderate volume with bass heavy music.  Unconventional yes, but that's about it.  Hope he improved the design in the last 15 years and just left the 8b designation.  They needed a lot of work.

@iansr There are plenty of used LFT-8b's for sale now, no need to wait!

Also, there are a few threads over at Audiokarma on the ET LFT-8c's with actual user experiences which are very informative:

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/eminent-technology-lft-8c-latest-version-impressions.1021996/, and 

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/anyone-else-upgrading-to-eminent-technology-lft-8c.999286/

Very informative thread guys.  I’ve decided I am going to buy a used pair of 8b so I’m hoping that when the 18LS come to market a few 8b owners will upgrade and put their 8bs up for sale 🤞

@tonnesen I think the correct cabling in an integrated amp is: CDP line in to integrated amp; integrated line out to 8c woofer: and then speaker cable from integrated to 8c panel. You will be saving a set of cables from woofer to amp. I am using two sets Duelund silver foil cables with Duelund gold plated paper cup connectors.

And as @bdp24 mentioned, Bruce is available for queries. Although my two recent emails have gone unanswered. I guess he is busy with the 18SL.

@tonnesen: If you call Eminent Technology, Bruce Thigpen will get on the phone with you (actually, he often answers it himself), and answer all your questions about the LFT-8c. He's a very friendly, down-to-Earth kinda guy.

@ledoux1238 

Is it possible to run the LFT-8c with an integrated amp?  Can I run balanced interconnects from the CD player to the woofer and from the CDP to the amp?  Or from the CDP to the woofer and then from the woofer to the amp?

"ust a reminder that the cable compliment is very different between the 8b and 8c. In the 8c, it is a set of line level cables from preamp out to the DSP / woofer  units, then another set of line level cables from the woofers to your amps, and finally speaker cables from amps back to the speakers. The amps only drives the mid range panels and the tweeters. And all signals go through A-D and D-A conversion before it goes to your amp."

You as well Jim! And all others reading along---Eric.

thx for starting the thread Eric ! hope you are well. 

Jim

Danny Richie has a Dodd battery-powered pre-amp in his system, but not power amps. My tinnitus is bad enough that reducing system noise is of no benefit for me. 😭

I’m definitely sure that would sound amazing ricevs.  It would take a good load of those batteries to provide the power and current needed.  Nothing I can afford to do anymore.  
The first time I heard a battery operated preamp back in the early 80’s it completely blew me away.  Can imagine everything on battery.  

You want to take your system to another whole level (way, way, way better than isolation transformer).....then get off the grid.....Use large Lifepo4 batteries and a Giandel pure sine wave inverter.......will blow your mind.......then add a Puritan line filter afterwords and your mind will never come back......yea!  Info on both on my website.  I do not sell anything to do with this.....unless you want your Puritan modded (personally, if I had a Puritan, I would hardwire my powercords into it......no Furutech connectors needed.....no connectors at all.

The Ground Enhancers are a copy of the original Audio Prism Ground Control (no longer available). Please do a search.....you will find rave reviews and more information on those. The Ground Controls were sold for $150 a pair and my better sounding versions were $30 a pair (now a big $40 a pair....actually now FREE with a pair of Music Purifiers). You can see the latest nude version on my website. They are a sonically tuned bunch of damped OFC litz wire. No one really knows why they work as they cannot be measured but the theory is that they act as an electron storage device.....like having a great ground plane. You can find reviews of my Ground Enhancers on line as well.

The Music Purifiers are an rf fliter.....it is a resistor and capacitor in series. They filter the noise on your speaker wire.....that is why they need to be put right on the speakers. The original version was made by Enacom back in the 90s.....then Walker Audio had some expensive ones, then Merlin Audio sold them with his speakers and now Stein Music sells very expensive versions and there are some other clones as well. These things can be measured. But why would filtering the speaker wire abouve 200K make a sonic improvement? Who cares.....it works. Every tiny thing you do makes a difference so I spent a lot of time tuning these and sent 2 or 3 versions to a couple of people to get feedback. The final version uses a modified small Polyprop cap that has its leads removed and the resistor is 5 parallel surface mount resistors that are soldered directly to the body of the cap (also super glued down). The wire on the ground is also soldered directly to the cap body and the hot wire is directly soldered to the 5 resistors.....no leads on any parts. They are suspended in a thick paper tube and the wires are superglued to the tube. The wire is cryoed OFC with Teflon foam insulation. No connectors on the wire......just the ends tinned with Wonder Solder and bent into a U shape to mount on a binding post. In the US they sell for $125 plus $10 shipping and right now I am giving away a set of Ground Enhancers with every pair of Music Purifiers. These are sold with a 30 day money back.....I will pay you $135 if you send them back.....you are only responsible for the shipping to me (maybe $10). BTW.....no customer has ever sent them back.

Both these things are super hand made and you can tell by the pricing that I am making billions of dollars. Maybe I should make a gold leaf version.....or even have rubies and diamonds on them......I could include a hidden ferrite ring too......he he.

Actually, I love that spending so little can result in so much improvement......I love being of service.   May we all be happy.....right now!

I use a 20 amp balanced AC line conditioner from Equi=Tech.  But I’d like to know more about the various Music Purifiers and Ground Enhancers.  I have test to use any.  I’ve always just over-maxed out the components power supply filtering.  Being a tech person I tend to not buy mysterious black boxes until I know what’s in them and how they work.  Or else you end up spending $500 on a little device that you find out is just a ferrite ring around the AC wire and incased in black plastic so you don’t know what it is.  Yes I’ve seen that done!

Any good forums on these kinds of filters/enhancers?

I used the same values as the manual states.  Just much better quality.  If I had the money I could go even further but you can only do what you can afford.  I do have a pair of the Rythmik F12 subs also.  One on each side and back towards the corner of the 8b’s.  They work nicely with the 8b’s.  Not as nice as open baffle subs but very good!

bdp24,

Thanks for the info.  Yes, the manual for the 8b has the schematic and values....and lots of measurements and details......incredibly detailed for a manufacturer......thank you Bruce.  So, guys.....get to work.  The stock execution is just average.  Do what Harpo75 has done (tricked out base, bracing, super xover and super jacks and wire) and you will have one of the best speakers in the world....at least for mids and highs.....Add my Music Purifiers and Ground Enhancers for even more detail and musciality.......One 8 inch woofer ain't goin to be that exciting.  I would mount a Lii Audio 15 inch open baffle woofer next to it and bi-amp.....maybe use two 15s......he he.....knock down the walls.

I want this.......Harpo75's system must sound outrageous!

Yeah, seeing tat x/o would be of interest to me as well. Thigpen shows a diagram of his LFT=8b x/o with values on the ET website, so duplicating it with higher quality parts is not difficult.

Harpo75,

So glad you are tweaking everything in your system......Here are a couple more things I have experienced:

1. 12 gauge Jantzen wax paper coils sounded WAY better than 14 gauge Jantzens on my Neo 10 planar midrange driver.

2. Going into the inside of the foil and coming out the outside is noticeably superior sounding......so, outside to driver or to ground (if used as a shunt).

3. Bypassing an inductor with a very small value cap results in more transparency. My friend with the modded Apogees put one of my modded .15 Wima caps across his big copper foil coils to ground on the tweeter circuit.....more clarity. He also has a Wima cap across his Mundorf copper foil iron inductor on the woofer panel....However, he never removed it to see what difference it is making. Would be good to get some feedback from you using it on a series coil on your midrange. I no longer have the Neo 10.....so cannot try it.

For the woofer, I would use the largest gauge coil I could find......you could also use the Mundorf iron core copper foils:

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/inductors/mundorf_CFS_range.html

Would love it if you posted a detailed pic of the xover with values.....so those with the speaker could tweak easier.  The ET panels are custom, so there is no lose for Bruce by sharing the xover.  In fact, he could learn what other people have found work good and incorporate those parts in his future speakers.....I want a 90 db single panel version with more woofs on the bottom.....done with all state of the art parts, base and bracing.....me drooling.

Have fun,

Ric

I know many people feel the bare wire is the only way to go.  Yes it does sound fantastic.  At least for a year or so until it oxidizes.   I believe in soldering or at least tinning the wire with good silver solder so things don’t oxidize.  If you’ve ever had to re-terminated wire and stripped the insulation off and found the wire now needs to be scrapped off because of oxidation, corrosion, etc you see why I don’t like leaving bare wire.  

I’m a retired high end Audio electronics tech that’s always had the champagne taste but on a beer budget.  So I’ve tended to build most of my own equipment as you can see. 

The amps are about 125W per ch. using four KT-150’s with Teflon V-Cap coupling caps.  Power supplies are on the bottom. Uses two EL84’s for the current source to the cathodes of the two 6SN7 input tubes.  Right now using four Sylvania 6J5 tubes.  

The preamp is the exact circuit from a Cary SLP-05 ultimate without the headphone section.  All coupling caps are Mundorf Supreme EVO - SilverGold Oil Film Caps.  The silver chassis below is the PS for it.  There’s about 900uf of Solan propylene in the preamps PS section.  Each tube has its own 1-1/2 amp filament regulator so I can run about any 6SN7 replacement.  Right now running a pair of old Mullard  ecc32/cv181 tubes on the balanced input.  Also a use 6F8G’s in an adapter a lot.  All inputs/outputs wired with Kimber Silver wire.  The rest with Kimber copper in the preamp and amps.  

I’ve completely gone through the Schiit Yggdrasil and extensively upgraded all the PS areas, chassis damping, etc which was a huge improvement.  

I also have an old Theta 4-tube preamp that I’ve completely (I mean completely) rebuilt and has a large external PS with a lot of propylene (about 700uf plus electrolytics) and uses a toroidal xfrmer.   The phono section uses teflon V-Caps and 3.0uf TRT StealthCaps in the line section and I only use it as a phono preamp.  About the only original parts I kept were the Mills wire wound resistors.  I even installed 9-pin teflon tube sockets.  The controls are all bypassed.  This output to via RCA to the SE inputs of my main preamp. And is converted to a balanced signal.  My amps only have balanced inputs which keeps down the number of tubes needed. 

I’ve tried to max things out but still keep things convenient to disconnect and move.  

The Thorens tt has a Saec WE-308L with all the Fonolab upgrades and a Technics EPC-U205mkIII cartridge with a Jico SAS Boron stylus.  Really enjoying music from this system.

I did completely upgrade the crossover parts in the LFT-8b with a copper foil inductor on the mid-panel, larger gauge copper wire inductor on the woofer, all high quality polypropylene caps and wires everything inside with Furutech OCC wire soldered with silver content solder and of course the Cardas posts.  The only resistor on the tweeter panel is the Mundorf MResist Ultra which are super clean sounding.  The sand resistors are terrible sounding.  Very grainy (no pun intended).  

Just the copper foil inductor on the mid-panel was a huge sonic improvement!   Much smoother sound and more revealing.  

The reason I kept everything inside was that the speakers would be much easier to sell if I ever want to.  I always consider that when modding things. 

Right with you there bdp24.  Rewired my Saec with one length of OCC from cartridge to Cardas RCA jacks. 

One application where I am pretty serious about hardwiring is in the tonearm. All my arms have single uninterrupted length of wires, from cartridge clips to RCA jacks. With a signal that low in level you really don’t want any extra joints (so to speak ;-) .

Yes ricevs, hardwiring even is always the best way to go.  Although it can also be inconvenient for moving, cleaning, upgrading, selling equipment.  I’ve thought of doing it many times to the speakers but haven’t.  Not real hard to do there.  I have hard wired from a couple sources in the past.  That at least gets rid of the connections on one end. 

The Apogee’s have to be fantastic. 

I thought you might have something to say on this subject Ric. ;-)

I'm unaware of the WBT Nextgen post, though I do have some of the RCA's on ic cables. Gotta check those out.

Actually, the tube connectors are not that great. You still have two solder connections and a connector.....it may have a shorter connection than most connectors but not as pure as a WBT Nextgen with low mass pure copper connections. My plastic clamp system is the purest sounding of all...and you can clamp wires together without any connectors.....less is more, most of the time.

The main problem with the tube connector is just what you stated: you have to use a banana into it and you cannot jumper to another connector or add more goodies like Music Purifiers. What if you have an expensive speaker cable with spades on it?.......then you cannot use your cables without a terrible signal distorting adapter. Using cables with no connectors and clamping together sounds like a hard solder....the purest sound. Here are three pics (bottom of page) of my plastic connectors (which cannot take bananas):

http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Digital_amp_mods.html

You can also see my plastic clamp system on the xover for the Apogee speakers in the last link......two posts above.  He loves them.  He uses the Fidelium bi-wire adapter and has Music Purifiers and Ground Enhancers on each set pf posts for best sound.......so, is clamping the Fidelium cables directly to the wire going into the xover.  His speakers sound amazing!

One participant on the Planar Speaker Asylum Forum wrote that he spoke with Bruce Thigpen about upgrading the speakers' crossover parts, and that Bruce was not at all offended, actually encouraging him to do so and providing some technical advice.

If you'll notice, in the pics @harpo75 posted above you can see that he has replaced the stock binding posts with the best ones Cardas makes: the CPBP model. If you look at the expanded pics of that post on the Cardas website, you will be able to see what makes them so. That post is as close as you can get to the Electra Cable Tube Connector by GR Research without forfeiting your ability to use speaker cables with spade connectors. 

If you want to take it to another level......here are some suggestions:

1. Hardwire everything......no spades on your speaker wires.....hardwire your speaker wire right to the xover parts. Remove the connectors from the xover to the panels. Hardwire the wire to the woofer right to the voice coil wire.......where it is attached to the tab on the speaker.

2. Make an external xover and mount it either behind the speaker (damped and isolated from floor or isolated from the woofer box on top of the woofer box). Use cryoed 12 gauge wax coils from Jantzen and make sure you go into the inside of the coil and out the outside. Hardwire all the xover parts together. Use the best caps and resistors you can afford.  Check out this custom xover (bottom of page) I made for some Apogee Duetta speakers a couple of years ago:

http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Speaker_ideas.html

3. Put felt all around the front of the tweeter.....overlapping a hair over the inside edge that the tweeter sees.  Way more focused and pure.

Please share with everyone the xover for the speaker.....so we can all do mods and help each other.  You cannot hurt ET by doing this.  These are custom drivers.....he cannot lose anything by you sharing the xover schematic.  He can only win....if people tell him what sounds better that what he uses......he can then build a better speaker and we won't have to mod it.  Its a win-win.

Be Happy......it is your birthright......Be a smile Billionaire......its free!.....S M I L E ...Start My Internal Love Engine........rev it up!

Eminent Technology LFT-8b speakers with modified bracing of the Sound Anchor stands.  Yes I went ahead an did it with extremely positive results.  

After reading about the Mye stands for the LFT-8b speakers I took a look at the Mye website.  He does some very nice bracing on the Magnepan’s.  The description of adding bracing sounded like it would be an excellent idea and addition to the Sound Anchor stands.  I didn’t want to spend another $800 or $900 on all new stands. Then the idea to just get my trusty mug welder out and add some bracing.  The idea is nice for the C-clamp but I felt adding the bracing right to the front metal plates would be much more stable and provide better damping.  Also I didn’t  like the look.  I would need to lengthen the four front hex screws in order to bolt the braces to it.  

After cycling through a few ideas I came up with an idea I liked that would be rock stable and also be easy.  I bought four 3/4” weld steel square tubes and a short piece of 3/4” flat weld steel.  After welding (I’m just adequate at it), grinding and painting I filled the tubes with about 2/3 lead shot and 1/3 fine sand.  Mostly because it’s all the lead shot I had and it’s gotten very expensive!

I used #10 -24 bolts and washers to attach the braces to the rear of the Sound Anchor legs which I painted.  I had to be very careful at tapping the holes there as the leg metal of the Sound Anchor is not super thick.  Figured if it stripped I can put nuts inside and put a little spot weld to hold them in place inside the legs but all is good.  Ordered 1-1/4” long black button hex head screws to attach the braces to the panels.  These replaced the four existing ones. 

Definitely added some extra weight. About 2-3 pounds.  Worked out great.  Could feel right off the panels were way more rigid.  They would flex a bit before when you moved the panel back and forth with your hands.  Now they’re rock solid!

So now to the sound improvements.  Well it was huge!   I know what you’re thinking.  He built something and made a change so he has to hear something.  Well right off I was amazed.  Seriously!  The entire sound is so much more solid and drums are tighter.  The image just has this solidity to it.  That was the word I kept thinking.  Much more stable image and better sound stage.  The highs even actually sound cleaner.  Now that surprised me actually and wasn’t expecting that.  I’ve always felt the tweeter could be improved on the LFT-8b’s and this made a great leap forward in just sounding smoother.  Cymbals come through much cleaner than before.  Everything just appears in space better. 

I remember when I added the Sound Anchor stands and thought Wow!   Nice improvement.  Adding the braces was more like a double Wow!  Really.  One of the biggest improvements I’ve made in a long time.  And I’ve made a lot!  I had upgraded the crossover parts a while back and that was spectacular.  Maybe that’s part of the reason why I noticed so much of an improvement with the bracing. 

It’s really improved my listening enjoyment to a whole new level.  I highly recommend upgrading your stands to something with a brace like this.  It’s literally  hard to stop listening!  

I’ll try to post some pictures here soon.  
 

A day or two ago Guttenberg posted a video entitled Top 10 Audiophile Speakers And Amplifiers Of The Year (meaning of those he has reviewed this year). One of them is of course the ET LFT-8b, and he again says he found the LFT to outperform every Magnepan he has had in his room, which includes not just the LRS and LRS+, the .7 and 1.7, but also the 3.6 and 3.7i.

That’s right, Steve considers the $3200/pr LFT-8b superior to the $8000/pr 3.7i. Having not heard the 3.7i I can neither agree nor disagree with that opinion. For me that opinion is of value not necessarily just in and of itself, but also for bringing the LFT-8 to the attention of anyone considering the purchase of any Magnepan. Just know that there is another contender in the planar-magnetic loudspeaker field, one very worthy of consideration.

The LFT-8b is around the same price as the 1.7i (I compared the two, and like Steve was very surprised at how different the two sound), and less than half the price of the 3.7i. As I stated in my OP, I consider the LFT-8b the greatest bargain in hi-fi today!

Steve, I'm not sure but I think we might have met at one of the shows.  I'm Lee Landesberg, current advertising director at Eminent Technology and one of the 5 dealers you mentioned.  I owned Landes Audio and sell Eminent in the S.E.,predominantly in SC.  I was one of the more active dealers for Bruce when I had my shop in NJ.  I also imported the Ars Aures speakers and teamed up with Joe Fratus to do the audio show circuit.  I am currently working with Bruce on the new Model Twenty musical instrument speaker line.  The 8c is a vast improvement as ledoux 1238 intimates.  Proper time alignment and an active bass has added the dimension in the bottom octaves that the LFT8 longed for.  Well worth the $ difference. I am awaiting delivery of my LFT18LS.  Stunning, and so cheap!