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subs for music

I currently have ML Aeons set up in a 10x12 room. The rest of the chain includes a Rogue Stereo 90, Rogue 66 Magnum, CJ EV1 phono, VPI Scoutmaster w/ ring clamp and Benz Micro Glider HO, McIntosh MCD205, and Denon DVD2900. I work in an AV store, and have access to a lot of subs, but they are all set up with HT processors, and none of the speakers we carry are as fast as stats. I have noticed that my system doesn't give me super deep bass (I of course knew that when I built it up, but now think a little more bass might help the sound). Does anyone use a sub for 2 channel music? What would be a good match with the Logans if I were to decide to pick up a sub? How well do subs integrate in 2 channel setups for music?

These may seem like dumb questions, but I had once heard that a sub isn't really a good idea for 2 channel, but now I am wondering if I'm not missing out. I can get a good deal on the Infinity CSW10 right now, and it is one sub I am considering. (Also looking at DefTech SuperCube, and all the Logan subs) But should I only look at Logan subs because of the speed of the stats? I don't want any coherence issues to crop up if I add a sub.
arafel
11 responses Add your response
dcrookham53
57 posts
 
I have an office system in an 11'x 12.5'room.
I've used many different systems, with and without a sub, but never had much luck getting good CLEAN deep bass.
I think it is due to the length of low freq. sound waves,
not having enough room to do their thing.
dcrookham53
57 posts
 
I have an office system in an 11'x 12.5' room.
I've used many different systems, with and without a sub, but never had much luck getting good CLEAN deep bass.
I think it is due to the length of low freq. sound waves,
not having enough room to do their thing.
sogood51
2,157 posts
 
Arafel

Woofers don't need to be quick...there is nothing quick about 30hz compared to the rest of the freq's. Most subs that don't mate well with small speakers are the falt of the speakers...not the sub. Know this, in order to mate a sub with a speaker with-out good clean output below 60hz requires a sub that can also do bass above the point of which most large subs are designed. This leads us to a point where many subs will falter...or in other words, not fast enough because they can not cover the freq's between the point where the speakers leave-off and where the sub is asked to take over.

Fat Pre?....A pre-amp that is only as good as some-one has lead you to beleave an tubed pre-amp should sound because it's their first tubed pre-amp and they along with you know no better as of yet.

Dave
honest1
586 posts
 
Some subs (incl.REL) run their inputs off the speaker wires, so you would be connecting wires from the speakers to the sub. The sub has a very high impedance, so isn't drawing power away from the speakers, but is reading the voltage signal going into the main speakers. The advantage to this is that if the power amp is coloring the sound in any way, the subs will have the same colorations being fed into the main speakers.
30Hz is not 30Hz, and all subs don't sound the same. Slow subs are subs that have poor transient response, dulling the attack of notes, or playing after the note has stopped. Perhaps they would all sound the same playing a 30Hz test tone (although prob'ly not), but that is not too common in music.
snofun3
601 posts
 
Regarding your question - Your choice - You can 1) run to both amp and sub but you risk have overlap between the two, or 2) alternately, run to the sub, use the sub's internal crossover, then come back out to the main amp - the Revel is set up to do this.
This way you use the sub as integral to the mains, instead as a quasi LFE channel. This is what the others were mentioning regarding the REL
I've tried it with my SL3's and it integrates nicely. Don't set the xover too high though.
arafel OP
32 posts
 
Dave:

Room has treatment already. 30hz may be 30hz, but would the woofer move air fast enough to integrate with stat panels, which are quick and nimble?

Fat pre? What do you mean by that? I do want to upgrade the pre, probably to a CJ Premier 17 LS2, unless I get a big fat bonus and can afford the ACT2.

Snofun:

Would you just run 2 outs from your pre, one to the amp and one to the sub?
sogood51
2,157 posts
 
Get rid of the fat pre-amp first. Your room needs much treatment next.

Fast bass? What is that? 30hz is 30hz. You have been reading to many Audiogon posts.

Dave
arafel OP
32 posts
 
How would that work exactly? Preamp RCA to power amp, power amp to sub, sub to speakers via high pass output? Why not just take a second out from the pre directly into the sub stereo inputs and use the crossover on the sub to integrate it with your speakers?
snofun3
601 posts
 
I have ML SL3's, Cinema and Aerius i's, with a Revel B15 - outstanding for both music and movies - fast as the stats. Found the REL wimpy in comparison, and the ML subs are a serious notch down. The Revel can be set up like the REL using it's internal crossover, and the 3 band parametric EQ works wonders.
If you want to go all-the-way, then it's the Aerial SW12.
Have fun.
mt10425
1,138 posts
 
Like Audiobugged, I agree that any REL sub would work. I will also add that most any sub that hooks up like a REL (LFE and Speakon from amp/receiver terminals) should be auditioned. There are a few companies that make them. Look around.
audiobugged
528 posts
 
Any REL sub system will work, or take home a ML Depth for trial?
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