I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
ok, thanks Bullitt. That helps and gives me some perspective. I'm still on path to upgrading my equipment and wanted to see if I thought I needed to make some changes in my plan based on the bright sound and what you might be using.
Anyone have any experience and recommendations on a dCS dealer? The closest ones to me are in Atlanta and Dallas. I'm fairly sure I am not region protected.
Component I'm considering is the dCS Network Bridge.
First I REALLY enjoyed evolvists visit last night. A really great person and we had fun exposing the failings of my system. LOL But despite that, the DIs held up their end of things for him. They helped polish the turd, so to speak. The newly formed NW Houston audio society (evolvist and me) have some big plans!
Vitop, I'm almost embarrassed to admit...
Digital: HTPC serving FLAC through JRiver to a Schitt Modi 2 Multibit. Analog: Thorens TD165, AT440, Schitt Mani pre. Amp is a Denon 4520 Receiver. Sub is a DIY Dual Opposed 15" powered by two Crown amps. We plugged in Evolovist's power amp. It made a huge improvement even using the $250 DAC and the Preamp section of my Denon to feed it. Last night it was clear my front end was not feeding the DIs to anywhere near what they are capable of. I have an Odyssey Pre-Power on order. I need that yesterday. Although I love the Modi 2 I have the wheels turning to return it and go with the Bifrost Multibit or some sub-$1000 dac. Trying not to go off the deep end after last night!
I mistyped. Thinner and taller than the DIs. which is exactly what I needed for my space. The width is more of an issue for me. I have some electrostats and they are already tall so that did not bother me but the width dimensions for that wall with the TV in the middle will overwhelm that wall with equipment. These will even be less wide than the electrostats.
Oh, and let me add that the highlight of my listening experience was Hendrix's "Voodoo Child (Slight Return)." Hendrix's guitar was crisp and taunt, batting back and forth between both speakers, his voice so clean in the middle. It was amazing.
Hi @iamasif It depends on how good your sub is. It sounds to me like you have a good one if your preset 2 is working well. Preset 2 is sending more of the lowest frequencies to the subwoofer. 50hz is reasonable although the DI's should be strong down to 30 hz or so. I would only suggest trying preset 2 with a 40 hz or even 35hz crossover on the DI's and seeing if that's an improvement.
I think I see one of my new speakers on Erics website. I needed a thin pair of side speakers because of where the wall and chairs are. Eric mentioned a 4" thin DI speaker. He now has them on his site. He is calling them the DI in wall speakers. I hope they sound good. They look good!
I believe the width of the mini-Ulfs is around 10.5 inches. They will be slightly taller than the regular Ulfs. Price is $7500. That is all I know.
Bullitt: Well, you just ruined my "Bullitt has a crane... how come I can’t have one" argument. I do have a 4 post lift in my garage, so it's only fair that my crane would have two more posts than yours would. :-)
Hi Lance, I’d also like to thank you for your listening impressions of 2 very different amplifiers. You must be happy knowing that you can enjoy excellent sound with either choice. This tells me that both amplifiers are high quality designs and well implemented. The sonic character differences you describe are what I had imagined they’d be given their respective topologies. What a special speaker to sort out the nuances so effectively. Charles
@evolovist , with the AHB2 you won't be dissapointed.
@kdude66 , the stock KT77's that come with the ZOTL40 are good tubes. They have excellent bass and make the ZOTL40 sound almost solid state, but the best SS ever.
Mark Schneider came over one weekend and we spent many hours doing a tube shoot-out to see what was best in the ZOTL40, listening through my Janszen's. We decided that day that the Gold Lion KT77 sounded better than any of the new stock EL34's we tried. He has since sold the amp with KT77's as stock tubes and even though they cost more he didn't raise the price.
evolvist, I am really looking forward to hearing it too. You and I seem to have similar music tastes and is probably why we both seem to lean toward the SS sound. I also have my hand-truck ready and the crane in place to lift it to the second floor. LOL
Thank's for your assessment of the 2 different amps with your DI's,
I have close results myself between the Zotl 40 and my Diy sit 2,both paired with the MZ2S.I prefer the 40 the best overall between the 2 different flavors.I'm also using Mullard xf2's from 1966.
I haven't tried the gold lion kt's yet,have you used that tube very much,love to hear your thoughts.
I did finally get to try the vt-99's in the MZ2S and I like them,quite a interesting engaging sound.
@lancelock thank you for the assessment. It's very much appreciated. I had no doubt that many of the tube amps mentioned here did a great job. I was just trying to get a feel for something that's a little closer to home.
Funny thing, I'm actually bringing my AHB2 over to try out the DIs in an audition tonight.
I have 2 presets for HT, Preset 1 with DI as is (defined as Large) and subwoofer for LFE and below 80hz on other channel. Preset2 with DI (defined as Small with 50hz below rollover to subwoofer) and 80hz below on other channels.
Preset1- when I am listening to 2 channel music DI as is (large, no crossover) performs great, and multichannel movies are good too Preset2- multichannel movies (DI defined small, with 50hz rollover) has extra punch on lower frequencies
@evolvist , I have the Benchmark ABH2 back in the system. I'm going direct from my Modwright Oppo 205 without a preamp and I must say it is spectacular. A whole different sound now that the DI's are well broken in.
The ABH2 is well known for its lack of distortion and it sounds clear and tight. In a comparison to the ZOTL amps.... well.... I like both. The AHB2 could be very slightly clinical in comparison but nothing that bothers me. The ZOTL with my Mullard EL34's has a midrange to make you melt into your chair, maybe a little more musical.
i would prefer the ZOTL for jazz and classical. I would prefer the AHB2 for rocking out. The best part is that the DI's seem to let everything through.
Eric doesn’t publish anything but this for the DI speakers:
20Hz-30kHz frequency response ±1dB deviation from 70Hz-20kHz
Personally, I would like to know what the ± is for 20Hz. I suspect it is more than -3dB.
Based on that, you would not want the crossover frequency to be higher than 70Hz and probably a lot lower. I would not crossover at all and just add a single subwoofer. Then see how that sounds.
I learned Tekton DIs are full-range speakers, in Home Theater environment when we have a good subwoofer below what frequency from Front channels (Tekton DI) should be directed to subwoofer?
Thx recommends 80hz and Tekton DI are very good at lower frequencies. What should be my crossover frequency? your recommendations are appreciated!
@grannyring The TDAI is uber cool. Wish they could make a bigger splash in the U.S. market...but, for those in the know.... : )
@evolvist Thanks for the info on the Bricasti M12.
The DIs will surprise you with hard rock and beyond. Like @mofojo says, it depends on the recording. The ability of the DIs to separate and layer musical information is exceptional.
And just one clarification. In my previous post I was referring to tubes in the present. I came to my present solid state self from a very tubular existence. : )
evolvist, i listen to a LOT of metal on my DIs. Slayer, Megadeth, Soilent Green etc. If it is a descent recording they sound very very good. It takes really good mid bass for metal to sound right and the DIs have that in spades. Lesser recordings like Pig Destroyer sound better than they will on most speakers but nothing is gonna to magically transform bad recordings to sound great. I mainly listen to acoustic rock, Primus, Classic Rock and they are phenomenal on that as well. hip hop I don't listen to but have played some for my wife and she loves them.
@david_ten I 've heard the M12, yes, only after I purchased my KDS/3, though. A good friend of mine is a Bricasti dealer and he offered me one well under retail. I thought it sounded very nice. The dual mono design really makes a difference.
What's ultimately enchanting about the KDS/3, however, is it's doing what Chord is doing in two different boxes, in one box + streamer, getting out of the USB path. At 16x RBCD, in the Linn and Chord FPGAs, in theory you're now closer to rendering 16-bit audio than ever before. In that respect, I don't give a hang about DSD, unless it's a unique mastering that was transferred to DXD then DSD. These are rare.
Anyway, I'm getting OT, but, you're probably right about the mini-Ulf. That is to say, if the DIs are all what they're cracked up to be, then the mini-Ulfs should be a no-brainer.
Like yourself, I have never made the jump to tubes.
And @grannyring like the Lyngdorf, Linn is largely overlooked this side of the pond. I've heard the 2170 and I thought it was a fantastic product that does a remarkable job.
I look forward to using Linn's Space Optimization on either the DI or the mini-Ulf, should one fit the bill. I mean, all of these voice in this thread, with so many different tastes in music, downstream gear, and experience can't be wrong.
One thing I've noticed, though, is that nobody has mentioned heavy mental of hip-hop with the DIs. Now, I'm not a metal head, nor do I listen to a bunch of hip-hop. I'm more of a classic rock, small ensemble chamber music, classic jazz, acoustic guitar, prog-rock music lover, but it isn't beyond me to put on some Metallica, Maiden and Beastie Boys from my youth. :-)
Yes indeed I love my Lyngdorf and I am well aware of the fact few here in the US own it or know about it. As a long time tube guy, I understand the "cool" factor is pretty low on the unit. It is so understated aesthetically that many would simply think of it as a lifestyle product and not take it seriously. The room correction is nothing short of transformational. The room is what limits most of our systems and gear.
I do not own the DI speakers. I own Acoustic Zen Crescendo speakers. I would love to try a set however. Most interesting speaker and achievement.
The AHB2 is a phenomenal amp. I'm sure you will be very happy with it and the Linn KDS/3, especially since you are probably looking for a very 'clean and clear' presentation. Given this (I'm assuming), the Ulf mini is probably a better choice over the DIs.
Speaking of Decware, I have been keeping an eye on their product line-up...just haven't been able to make the jump to tubes yet.
Since you were comparing DACs/Pres and settled on the Linn, did you also consider the Bricasti M12?
Hi Lancelock, I find your impressions of various amplifier comparisons with and without the M2Z ZOTL particularly interesting. Your Benchmark amplifier has "vanishing " low distortion specifications. In my experience and understanding this is achieved via very generous use of NFB (negative feedback). This approach also results in a very low output impedance and conversely a high damping factor.
I’m curious how this type circuit will sound with and without the M2Z in the signal chain driving the Double Impacts and how sonically it differs from the LTA ZOTL 40. I look forward to your listening insights of these 2 very different amplifier topologies. I’m not sure if theZOTL 40 utilizes NFB and if so how much. Probably considerably less than the Benchmark given the distortion figures. I’m assuming that the ZOTL isn’t nearly as low. It would be very interesting if you had a zero NFB amplifier as a 3rd variable (SET or a First Watt). Yes,I know, easy for me to say 😊 Fun stuff. Thanks, Charles
@lancelock , yeah, if you could, check it out...though I wonder - It’s like the rep from Benchmark said - the AHB2 is only as good as the source you’re amplifying. I have no idea what sort of DAC your use, but I’m curious.
I’ve never been anti-tube for speaker listening, but I am for headphone listening, having never found a tube amp that didn’t render the audio a bit flubby. Again, that’s with cans, only. Myself, I’ve actually learned a lot about tube gear from reading this thread. But, I guess you’ve got to crawl before you can walk, so I had best audition the DI first.
@Corelli , thanks for making this thread happen.
Edit: Whoops, above in my long ass post, I meant to type "odd order harmonics" are not what's desirable in most SS amps
@evolvist - I tried the ZOTL40 today with and without the MZ2 and it was a pleasant experience. The ZOTL40 sounded pretty good going direct as well but not the case in my other system. Maybe the Modwright tube stage in my 205 is smoothing things out somewhat.
As with teejays experience the Micro ZOTL did sound a little better by itself even with my primo tubes but not by much. This contradicts my findings with my electrostats. In this set up the ZOTL40 and Micro ZOTL are inseparable and a match made in heaven. The ZOTL40 does not sound nearly as good without the MZ.
Now that the DI's are properly broken in I will put the AHB2 back in to hear the difference but being familiar with both amps I doubt the pairing will sound better than the beauty of the LTA tube amps.
Evolvist My hats off to you...all 32 pages. Quite a bit of info there from some really good people with many years of experience. I keep enjoying my DI's more and more. My single best purchase in 40 plus years of audio enjoyment!
Wow, so I finally read through all 32 pages. It was quite a read and quite a journey for many of you (this is after reading many more pages on other forums). Wheew!
So, yeah, I’ll get to audition the DIs on Wednesday or Thursday of this week, thanks to @Bullitt5094. If I like them, I can’t see me NOT making the immediate leap to the mini-Ulfs. Any objections?
A couple of things, @lancelock I, too, have the Benchmark AHB2 amp. I’ve long subscribed to the "gain with wire" theory. Did you ever go back to driving the DIs with just the AHB2 to see how it sounds?
Now, I realize that SS gear adds its own harmonics, usually of the less desirable even-order; however, with a THD+N of 0.00013% (verified independent of Benchmarks own numbers), any imparted distortion and undesirable harmonics would be well below human hearing.
It’s just me riffing. Plus, that’s a lot of quality watts coming out of the ABH2.
Speaking of watts, I’m surprised that nobody has spoken of using Decware tube gear with the DIs. I mean, we’re talking about highly lauded tube amps, in configurations to meet most of the tube hungry crowd. Made in the USA, too, baby! I don’t own any Decware amps, but I’ve always been curious.
@grannyring I also wanted to comment on the Lyngdorf stuff. It’s great, isn’t it? I’m glad you’re getting good results with the DIs. With the room correction in the Lyngdorf, do you feel it does everything you need it to do in order to hear the speakers and not the room? Myself, I took a similar path, albeit one that cost me an arm and a leg, with the Linn KDS/3. That’s the latest Linn streamer/DAC/Preamp combo. It’s the same principle, to keep signal digital until the last possible moment. Another real benefit is that you can go straight RJ45 from your router, keeping the packets perfect and uncolored, instead of going USB with something else in the middle. It also has room correction, called "Space Optimization" which is done without a mic.
Anyway, out of trying many DACs: Chord, MSB, Trinity, dCS, Schiitt and Metrum, this was not only the best sounding DAC out of all of them, but also with the added features of all-of-the-above, it really turned my crank.
I’m now using Audio Physic Avanti 30th Anniversary Jubilee speakers.
I think that’s about to change, though. :-)
P.S. - I just wanted to thank everybody in this thread for their 2 cents. Everybody has been real class acts. You've brought a lot to the table and made yourselves available.
Im quite sure you won't be disappointed. I bought the Outlaw processor last fall and still haven't used it yet as I haven't bought speakers for the theater room yet. I'm having too much fun and spending too much money on my two channel system!
Enjoy and im looking forward to your impressions of the DI's.
I just bought the upgraded DIs, looking forward to getting them (and the grilles 6 months after that!) and finding out what all the fuss is about. Thanks to everybody sharing their input on this thread, y'all helped make a sale and get me into something fun. Thanks!
Will be running them with the Outlaw RR2160 stereo receiver for the time being. Over time I may get sucked in deeper and start looking into tube amps and the like.
Thanks Vitop. I'd be happy to drive from Austin to hear the DIs, but I don't want to set up an appointment when I have no intention to purchase. Maybe I'll stumble upon another opportunity.
@Evolvist, just sent you a message with my email address. This forum software is not user friendly. I'm just up 290 from you off Fry Rd. near Blackhorse Ranch.
I actually do not know the answer to those questions. I basically bought them after I had heard the DIs and Eric promised me these would sound even better. I do know they have the 15 tweeter/midrange arrangement because that was how I ended up going in that direction.
I was primarily interested in HT and was going to go in the direction of the Paradigm Persona speakers which had been the clearest speakers I had heard. I was going for accuracy and clarity as my primary goals. The last speaker I wanted to hear was the Legacy Audio line of speakers since like Tekton, the had a reputation of having much better sound than their price indicated. Basically a giant slayer. To add to that, they used a high quality ribbons and I own a set of Apogee speakers and a set of Final sound electrostats. I think ribbons and electrostats if done right have some of the best sound going. I found a dealer that carried both Legacy and had a set of DIs on the floor so I went to hear them. I did some critical listening between Erics tweeter array and the ribbon tweeter, fully expecting the ribbons to be better.
After listening to the DIs I was going to buy them but since so much of the HT dialogue comes from the center speaker, I asked Eric if he could make me a center that looked like a smaller Ulf turned on it's side. I was after the 15 speaker tweeter/mid arrangement for my center.
That was when Eric mentioned the Ulf mini which were more wallet and room friendly and would match the custom center better. That's what I ended up getting. It will have more bass drivers, but be smaller drivers. It will have the 15 speaker tweeter/ mid arrangement and beyond that I don't know much. I am just trusting Eric here.
I have not figured out how to PM on here either, although I have had others PM me. SO I guess I'll just post the information publicly and maybe someone else can get something out of it.
I heard them at Raven Audio. Dave is the owner. You can reach him at 936-662-5100.
Great guy and has some good stuff there. Let him know that I gave you his info. I won't do anything for me but I do want him to know that I appreciated the time he spent with us and that I am referring people to him when I can. I owe him that. He was waiting for equipment to come in and some venders were slowing him down. He was setting stuff up in a huge storm that knocked power out and he came in early again the next day to keep on setting up, so whatever I can do in terms of letting people know, I will.
Hopefully you will like them. If you ever figure out how to PM, give me a PM.
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