What is the most cost effective upgrade or tweak? What yields the largest return on investment (ROI)? What if you could spend no money and no time and yield significant performance increases? Theoretically, that would result in an infinite ROI!
So how do you make that happen? Stop tweaking. What happens when you stop tweaking and messing with your audio system constantly is that you let everything burn in and settle down. Go read one of the many threads on this website that talks about how long it takes for components and cables to break in. The answers range from a few hours to several days. If you are suffering from constant upgrade-itis, you never let your audio system fully burn in. You’re robbing yourself of free, infinite ROI. And you never truly hear what your system is capable of. I’m not saying don’t upgrade your system. That’s a lot of the fun. Just give it some time and let your system burn in and open up. Reassess where you are at and where you want to go next.
Due to reasons I won’t go into depth on right now (mainly power issues), I am temporarily using a relatively cheap, high power, class D amp. I wasn’t thrilled with this setup and wasn’t sure if I could even call it’s sound signature high end. Due to a busy schedule, I have not had time to upgrade anything or even pursue simple tweaks. As a result of that, I have witnessed how the amp and my system have burned-in/settled down - whatever you want to call it. The sound was initially on the thin side and had harsh treble. Now the soundstage has become huge and the sound has become very smooth - smoother than I thought class D was capable of - especially from a class D amp that isn’t really something to write home about.
My point is that I realized significant performance increases by doing literally nothing. And now that I am hearing what I believe is the true sound of my system, my next tweak or upgrade will be more effective because I can clearly recognize where the weaknesses are at instead of making judgements while things are still burning in, which is often the case with upgrade-itis.
+1 samuel03. Irrational but efficacious CD by Ayre Acoustics. The ROI is infinite for those already subscribing to Qobuz because it is offered there. So, free.
Credit where credit is due: I learned of it from Jim Smith’s book, Get Better Sound. And like S-03, bought the CD long before I started steaming.
On the physical CD jacket, it says only the last track is needed to improve your SQ. It’s a full glide tone and is 5 minutes. Other tracks are for set up, mostly, I think.
Gita “All I'm saying is that the closer I get my speakers to "perfect" symmetry in the room, the better focused the soundstage becomes”
Same Here.
Digsmithd, I have had the same very positive result with respect to leveling and grounding by speakers using a DIY height-adjustable base I built from strong oak ply wood and 5” long bolts. My speakers are level to each other even thought the floor drops about 5/16 from Left to Right speaker. The bases allow correction for the floor. Each speaker plumb, level too.
Putting inexpensive spring pods (4 pods I under each speaker) $55 total, is amazingly good. I’m on a suspended floor.
Yeah i had to mess around with em quite a bit to level/to chair (just over shoulder) with lazer...to get grounded to uneven floor...good workout/soundanchor stands...im sure i have to tweek it again since its been 2 years...ugh!!
Sounds like you got it dialed in RC22...The whole catalyst was an article from galen carol audio..."it all matter’s".One tightened spike for one of my stands.
Laser is an acronym- Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation, LASER. There is no "z" in laser.
Speaker placement is important, very important, but getting it down to a fraction of an inch is a wasted effort.
Went through this same crap with this joker name of Ron at work. Miller you are so full of it, etc etc. Party one time he decides to play a practical joke on me, moves one speaker so sure no one will notice. By chance I happened to sit and listen to check volume before playing for this woman wanted something I hadn’t played in a while. Immediately I noticed the balance was off, the image shifted and out of focus. Checked the amp, no not that, must be.... within like 30 seconds I had it figured out and corrected. By ear.
Then as I went to get her wondering what happened thinking maybe someone just bumped it or something I see Ron standing in the door with this shocked look on his face. Instantly I knew. Busted. "This is not amateur hour, Ron."
The good news I guess, like Ron, you have plenty of room to up your game.
Hey @millercarbon - I am shocked you don’t keep your phono stage and all amps on at all times. What are your reasons?
Tubes. Makes it a tradeoff. Also I play records. Even with everything on and running - including the platter spinning - still the cartridge warms up. Yes I have tried and heard it all. It is a tradeoff, to be sure.
Every once in a while I will leave everything on for an extended period. Chuxpona, when a room full of audiophiles sat spellbound for a solid two hours, that was one of those times. I got so many tricks up my sleeve....
I read through Galen’s articles a few years ago. My speakers were not plumb just sitting on the floor. Something I read emphasized the value in correcting that in order to dial in set up. Probably those articles.
The easiest embeddings controls to do is mechanical control of vibrations for the speakers and gear...
The electrical decrease of electrical noise floor can be accomplished in many ways, all complementary...
The acoustic passive treatment with materials of different kind is mandatory for all small room, and if like me you own an audio room, active mechanical control of the relation between the speakers specificities and the room itself is the more powerful embedding control ever...It gives to you the power to change imaging, soundstage,listener envelopment, relative source width, and the dynamical timbre 3-d perception envelope body...
I refuse to call "tweak" some so important cardinal factors to create Hi-FI which are on par with the choice of gear itself nevermind their cost...
We could call "tweak" some artefact among others to reach the final goal yes... But always speaking of "tweak" instead of embedding controls is reinforcing the false idea that methods to create embeddings control are secondary.... They are not ..... The device could be secondary, the method are not.... 😊
Hey @millercarbon - that's part of the reason I like SS - always on. My phono stage has no on off switch and my amp now comes with the on/off switch in the back so you just leave it on.
I'll often just play one record or even one side, so having it warmed up (of course it sounds better when it is really cranking for a little while) is a definite positive without worrying about burning up tubes and heating the house in the summer.
Right. I've had that too. Just one problem. SS left on 24/7/365 still doesn't sound as good as tubes on 20 minutes.
You just made me think of something. What if you took a ear bud apart to expose the driver. Put a tiny little dab of Blue-Tack on it. Stick a bit of sorbothane on the Blue-Tack. Mount it on a little pedestal with the driver pointing up. Connect it to your iPod. Set the stylus down on it. Now you can warm up the cart and phono stage without any stylus wear.
Not to start a whole big tubes vs. solid state discussion @millercarbon , but you can make generalizations about tubes sounding better, but some specific models of SS sound better than some specific models of tube gear.
It's certainly not inexpensive, but one might call it a "tweak" until you hear the difference and that's using balanced AC power. A proper balanced transformer/power conditioner will be expensive and HEAVY, but in every system where I've used one, balanced AC drops the background noise by at least 10-15 dB. That's typically been enough to take the perceptible system noise to complete, black silence. Worth every penny...
Completely agree with you I have a few (5) AC balanced power supplies to selected source components, and it keeps getting better even after 6 months!
Not to start a whole big tubes vs. solid state discussion @millercarbon , but you can make generalizations about tubes sounding better, but some specific models of SS sound better than some specific models of tube gear.
Tube versus SS. is like digital versus analog...
Sterile and unproductive discussions because nowadays each type of gear is specifically related to the specific designer’s talent and goal...
Long time ago for me 8 years ago... I ought to decide what kind of amplifier i would buy...
I chose a Sansui top model of the AU series because Sansui takes 20 years to replicate their own tube amplifier the Sansui AU 111 tube amplifier in solid state form...
They succeed and replicate it with a Sansui AU S.S. model in front of a crowd in a demonstration with beside the famous Au 111 they present an AU SS. to mimic it without any difference to be perceived, proving that there exist NO ABSOLUTE difference theorically "per se" between SS. and tubes... There exist only specifically explicit difference between tube amplifiers that could be replicated by any S.S. design if the research and time and money were invested into doing it....
Generally for sure there exist differences between any tube design and any SS design but not because tube design is superior but because the DESIGNER itself is superior , be it a SS. or TUBE oriented mind....
I buy my Sansui AU 7700 after reading and seeing that.... I lost the link.... sorry....
+1 millercarbon for: "So simply unplugging and wiggling a wire around is enough to audibly affect performance, and it takes time to settle back in to get it back"
True that...
yugebohner, The problem with coating myself is my wife will inevitably want to go out for dinner at some point, & people take offense to my face & body coated in NPS1260. It's also expensive.
Get all the misc stuff out from between the speakers. Make sure the speakers are properly positioned. Clean contacts, terminals, sockets etc. Better initial power cord.
Surprinsingly, two of the cheapest tweaks that should be prioritize are often the most overlooked as we are all always looking for upgrades... 1- Speaker positions, away from back wall and surrounding walls, toe in, tilt. 1.1- Speaker grills on or off, most often off sounds better 2- Your listening position in the room Dial this right, and the performance will be significantly better.
I’m surprised that no one has mentioned ac recepticals. It always kills me when someone plugs a $2,000 power cable into a 99 cent receptical. After spending $10,000 to $100,000 or more on a system a few hundred dollars in a really good ac receptical will make huge improvements.
The cheapest tweak is to take care of your ears. After 40 years of being a professional musician, my ears are in decent shape. I can hear in a reasonably flat fashion, but I have tinnitus that makes it impossible to listen at the levels I would really love to hear. Above 70db A weighted, it starts to get uncomfortable and the ringing ramps up. Take care of your ears, people. Unlike all the other tweaks and gear things, you cannot get new ears.
@herman @gita Yes, I agree that "perfection" in placement is the objective but how to limit the effort required. The laser measuring device used by real estate appraisers is one method other than string or measuring tape. I have 190 lb. speakers and had to determine the correct distances from the front and side walls as well as the angles for each of the four corners of the speakers (tow angle). I think I got within 1/8".
I don't believe even most speaker manufacturers use precise set-up or build quality to WIlson's .0002" (whatever) specification.
I use two pairs of Shakti Hallographs to correct imaging for the room. It's not a budget tweak but solves the problem for my Legacy Focuses which are not the best focused speakers in my custom built listening room.
I agree that best and cheapest tweak if needed is the ear canal cleaning. It may not be considered a tweak but fundamental to sound/music reproduction.
The dB meter is probably not accurate, but we’re looking for relative differences, not absolute accuracy. Besides speaker placement and possible measures to improve room acoustics, the listening position may need to be changed to avoid sitting on acoustic nodes or antinodes of important frequencies. All this can be perfectly measured with the two free apps.
Just for fun I measured the frequency response of my Harmon/Kardon GoPlay bluetooth speaker with the two apps of the previous post. I played the 20s logarithmic sweep 20 - 20kHz wav from here.
Repeated measurements show very similar results. And apparently this speaker, in my room, microphone at 1m distance, does not have a particularly flat graph ... there's over 10dB range between peaks and valleys. Can't show my Magnepan speakers with Duson class A amp right now because I'm in the middle of a move and just yesterday I packed all cables.
The three spikes at the start were my count in: one, two, three, go.
RE: the addition of ficus trees. How many do you need? Well, if you can still actually visually see your system from the listening position, then you need more trees. Caution: most afficianados tend to overdue it when adding squirrels. Be conservative.
RE: the addition of ficus trees. How many do you need? Well, if you can still actually visually see your system from the listening position, then you need more trees. Caution: most afficianados tend to overdue it when adding squirrels. Be conservative.
Room first. If the acoustics have not been sorted out then you’re just chasing your tail. Measurements to a thousandth of an inch can not smooth out the biggest issue: room nodes. The frequencies below the Schroeder threshold will be in the order of many feet. The wavelength (lambda) of 40Hz = 28ft and at 100Hz = 11ft. Lambda = velocity/freq so at the transition from the Schroeder frequency to a reverberant field which is about 250Hz average you are still looking at a wavelength of 4.4ft. so bring out the tapes and lasers after you have attended to the acoustics.
It takes effort and some money (not much if you can DIY) but is without doubt the best thing that can be done to improve sound. This needs to be heard to understand. Fix the room above all else. Imitation ficus trees are incapable of doing much, they may scatter a narrow range of high frequencies but what they will do is collect dust. Lots of dust.
Speaker placement is important, very important, but getting it down to a fraction of an inch is a wasted effort.
Went through this same crap with this joker name of Ron at work. Miller you are so full of it, etc etc. Party one time he decides to play a practical joke on me, moves one speaker so sure no one will notice. By chance I happened to sit and listen to check volume before playing for this woman wanted something I hadn’t played in a while. Immediately I noticed the balance was off, the image shifted and out of focus. Checked the amp, no not that, must be.... within like 30 seconds I had it figured out and corrected. By ear.
so Ron moved the speaker how much? An inch, a foot, or maybe you can detect .0002 inches like the resolution of the Wilson micrometer? Your anecdote doesn't tell us much unless we know how much he moved it.
Since you know everything there is to know about everything to do with audio, what is the smallest amount of speaker movement a human can detect?
2 tweeks and both virtually free! 1-unplug and replug a few times all your power cords,interconnects, and tubes(if you have tube gear), no contact cleaners,enhancers ,etc needed. 2-(and this does cost some $) buy a gallon of distilled water and a package of sponges at your local grocery store-don't need an audiophile version. pour some water in a bowl,dip the sponge in the water, wringe out the sponge till it is just damp and wipe down everything in your system- all cables(spk,int,ac) ,electronics, turntable,speakers cabinets- but not drivers! may need to remoisten sponge if you have a lot or gear.
RudyB: Could be fun to have a "Frequency Response" thread where everyone (who’s brave enough :) posts their measurement results.
I agree on the fun aspect. W/out specific guidelines* to generate and capture the FR curve(s), attempts at comparing “apples to _______ may prove impossible. *constraints and restraints for equipment and methods, & either a room description and/or drawing plus, if relevant, the “SAF factor/ratio” of compromises.
I’ve used phone apps connected by Bluetooth to generate white noise, Pink noise, or a single frequency. I’ve used Behringer’s DEQ2496 built in RTA w/ it’s calibrated mic at the listening position to (tweak/tune/EQ and) capture the FR. Finally a phone photo app to post the RTA display. Tony
@rc22 My way of thinking: I paid for the 7 tracks with total 19 minutes, not the single track of 5 minutes. Might as well employ them all. Besides, to me 20 minute walkabout is preferable to 5 minute one ;) ..and so easy to do.
It depends on how far are you ready to go in terms of loss risk, high ROIs always come with a high loss risk. If you are ready to deep in terms of risk then crypto investment brings back high and quick ROIs but if you want to play safe, I would recommend real estate investment, you don't need to buy a house, you can buy a garage and rent it.
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