2. speakers
  3. 185351-178346

The Snob Appeal Premium

I have learned that speakers are a typical victim of "Designer Label Syndrome".  Supposedly an $8 billion a year market (hard to believe) speakers are fairly simple beasts with little substantive improvements over the last 50 years. Ever since Paul Klipsch ( a character in his own right) read the Bell Labs 1934 papers and revolutionized speaker technology there have been few similar revolutionary improvements to the speaker. So- if you are an enterprising manufacturer of speakers (which are relatively cheap to build) how do you extract more and more money from the consumer ?  Answer: Synthetic demand driven by cachet' !  Like a pair of Louis Vuitton sneakers @ $650 a pair vs. New Balance runners @ 60/pr. It's snobby bragging rights stuff I'm describing here- perceived vs. actual value in a product. 

Here's an anecdotal example: 

I recently set out to build a high end mid-fi system (ARC preamp, power amp, Dac 9) for a large room "main house" (not a listening room) system. The goal was big, full, rich sound in a room full of furniture, chow dogs, kids and untreatable other things like 20 foot ceilings, multiple openings such as a balcony to the upstairs bedrooms, etc. Basically an audiophile's nightmare. 

I auditioned a number of speakers- Perlistens supported by JL Fathom subs, B&W Signatures, Bryston Model Ts, Vienna Acoustics Mahlers and Bethovens. IMO all of these are somewhat similar towers (except the Perlistens). The price point was not as important as the sound- given the limitations of the application. 

In the shopping for new or used I found a number of odd prices. The most unusual finding was a brand new set of Model Ts here in Audiogon advertised for $4K with a 20 year factory warranty. The dealer had one slide around of his hand truck and it put white paint smears on a corner of the Boston Cherry cabinet. Hmmm- 4 grand vs. 12 grand for a small fixable cosmetic flaw? I bought them. They sound fantastic. Some elbow grease and a furniture marker pen made the flaw vanish. 

I asked the dealer (Paul Kraft in Easton PA- great guy BTW) why the Audiogon Blue Book for a Model T was so low. His answer was "snob appeal". Apparently there is a big bragging rights  premium paid for having the UFO looking B&W Signatures vs what the snobs call the Bryston Model Ts "Axioms in a fancy suit".  I later learned that there are some prominent reviewers who refuse to listen to A/B speaker comparisons behind a silk curtain unless they know what brand is being scrutinized. To me that means "payola". 

Do the Model Ts sound better to me than the Mahlers, Bethovens, B&Ws? No. But they don't sound worse either (in my application). Do the above sound $8,000-$14,000 better than the Brystons in the listening rooms of the dealers? IMO NO WAY. To be fair price/value does color my perception much like a bottle of $40 Rumbauer Zin tastes better to me than $200 Silver Oak expense account wine. 

I'm guessing this post will anger brand snobs and garner snarky comments because their taste in sound is different than mine. Although this missive is really about personal perceptions of value v. sound I found my education on pricing fascinating and I feel great about finding amazing value in the brand new Model T's that needed 30 minutes of TLC to be at home in my family room. 

Moral of the story: Try em before you buy em, and look for value. It's fun and rewarding with no buyers remorse. 

128x128Ag insider logo xs@2xyesiam_a_pirate
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,187 posts
 

My system is as humble as your own ...

Dont feel shame the relation between musical nirvana and sound perfection is not linear nor directly related...

My "virtual room" motto is :

Top Hi-fi audiophile experience for the not wealthy...

I am dead serious about it...

😊

By the way only ignorant people will claim that their audio system is superior to anyone else because of price especially if their audio system as most system are in living room with few if any acoustical embeddings controls..

There is evident exception , go see mikelavigne virtual system...His room acoustic is the main factor for me...I know that his system is TOP... But many other flashy one dont touch it... And my modest system is not too far behind those that dont touch it anyway... 😊

 

The other reason is hearing is so complex and synergetical windows of coupled components so complex and variable too especially if we add the various embeddings situation and devices around them , that bragging about the design superiority of amplifier over another less costly one but relatively good one is preposterous presented as for everyone the ONLY solution...

 

“ With over a million essential moving parts, the
auditory receptor organ, or cochlea, is the most
complex mechanical apparatus in the human
body”
Hudspeth, A.J. 1985. The cellular basis of hearing: The biophysics of hair cells. Science

 

And the minimal S. Q. satisfaction threshold is relatively easy to grab, modulo embeddings control with basic knowledge and relatively good basic components at low price, especially TOP vintage of the past...

 

I’ve always been aware that my gear is humble compared to many systems here. As far as I’m concerned I don’t care if anyone thinks my audio indulgences are ridiculous. They are not in comparison to many friends hobbies. Their hobbies are way more expensive…. Boats , ski trips , trips in general.

I like to travel but I have no problem spending what a trip would cost on a really good component or speakers. It’s tangible and will give me many years of enjoyment

 
 

 

 

ghdprentice
7,135 posts
 

I don’t find a lot of snobs here. [a person who believes they are superior to others, due to their wealth, social status, or taste in culture]. I think there are a lot of big egos. Folks that have found their system but without the breath of experience to realize there are lots of different tastes in sound, objectives, and budgets. So they think their way is the only way. Also, frequently restricted budget thing plus ego equals looking down on people as having too much money and no sense, or visa versa.

If you’re really going to be a snob. This just isn’t the pursuit for you. You need something flashy recognized by almost everyone. Not just .001% of the population, that is really esoteric. I think houses, cars, clothing, clubs… that kind thing is more prowl to snobbery.

oddiofyl's avatar
oddiofyl
3,937 posts
 

I’m just a blue collar guy that likes good HiFi.   I make concessions in other areas , work OT ,  live an otherwise frugal life 

oddiofyl's avatar
oddiofyl
3,937 posts
 

I’m lucky , kids are grown , bills are low , hearing is still pretty good.    I make no apologies for any toys I buy.   I save for something I want , never buy anything I can’t pay for in cash ….  
 

I also try to buy gear that is desirable at resale.  Sometimes my swapping out gear is more like a long term rental.   In the case of some CJ and Mac gear I have sold I have actually profited.   

ghdprentice
7,135 posts
 

@oddiofyl 

To me, you are the essence of a true audiophile. Someone that is passionate about sound quality / music and makes concessions in other parts of their life to achieve the best possible sound for you.
 

I had a cheap used Datson 1200 car for fifteen years (20 - 35), and bought the cheapest TP,  but bought a new a cutting edge Threshold amplifier (costing over 5 times what my car costs). No snobbery, just passion.

More to discover