Turntables better than a Wadia 861SE w/ Statement

Hello Aoliviero:

When I first got back into vinyl, I spent +/- 30% of what I had into my Levinson 37 transport and Chord DAC 64. The up-side is I have not bought a CD in three years, the down-side is I have bought in the neighborhood of $1,000 in records, and have just up-graded my turntable / arm / cartridge / phonopre, for the third time.

Best regards,

Dave

Hi Aolivero,
I once participated in a friend's similar effort to "balance sources". We used an earlier version of yr pre, with a Symphonic Line amp (outstanding match with CAT and sounding similar to JL) -- AND (bingo) a Wadia 861 (i.e. an earlier version of yrs?).

TO make this long story shorter, we tried a large number of tables, all privately owned or dealer loans, mostly reasonably priced, using a Shelter 5 s.(the SAME Shelter on all TT's -- you can imagine the setting up hassle!).

1) The best digital (incl the Wadia) sounded very good, esp when NOT compared to analogue. The performance was also consistent and, of course, there's no set-up hassle, LP cleaning hassle, etc.
2) The overwhelming majority of TT were capable of better musical enjoyment than the digital.
3) Cheap vinyl reissues sounded horrible. Badly set up TT's sounded average to horrible.
4) Few cd's sounded absolutely "horrible" -- but none we tried sounded absolutely outstanding.
5) Amazingly, the TT bass was superior, as was the upper register as the TT became better engineered (also more expensive).

Many good performers from Teres, Amazon, Clearaudio (the mid-priced stuff), Scheu... priced <3-5k + cartridge, new.

The latest +10k (new) TT+arm offerings were beyond comparison; usefully, the set-up and maintenance for these TT's is also minimal/non-existant (take S. Yorke, for example; many others).

We didn't try SME, unfortunately.
We listened to classical and some blues.
Cheers

Gregm & All,

Thank you for your replies. It seems that properly set up and reasonably priced Turtable rigs can easily outperform decent digital in many ways.

Embarking on a turntable/arm combination seems very intimidating. Maybe it's because I don't have the experience here that I did on evaluating digital front-ends. My main questions are now:

1) Is there a particular area one should focus on? Turntable ? Arm? Cartridge?

2) Is getting an "all-in-one" system like the Nottingham or VPI whorthwhile? Does it limit upgradability?

3) How much should one spend to get something that is clearly better than the Wadia?

From what I've read, my short list would be below. Any recommendations?

Mid-End:

Nottingham Spacedeck/space arm
VPI Scout Master

High End:

Teres
SME
Basis
Kuzma

Cartrigges:

Shelter, 901
Zyx (not sure if gain is high enough)
Benz Micro-Glider, Wood

Hi Aoliviero,
your question is exactly up my alley!! :-)
Altho my Wadia 861 is stock & not the SE version, I still love it. I run it into a CAT SL1 Sig Mk3 & in turn into a pair of Symphonic Line RG4 Mk3 amps. I agree w/ Gregm that these amps are really very good sounding & a very good match for the CAT SL1 Sig Mk3. They seem to be sounding a bit better ever since I upgraded their diode rectifier bridge.

Take a look @ my TT setup - it retails for little over $4K & it handily beats the Wadia 861. It's more "organic" & the music simply flows thru it. Not that the music doesn't flow easily thru the Wadia 861. In & of itself, the Wadia 861's rendition of music is simply superb & so far I wouldn't trade it for another CDP but when compared to my TT setup, the Wadia loses. There's a "correctness" of the music thru vinyl that the Wadia cannot give. I don't think that it's the Wadia as much as I think that it's the digital format. I've worked on getting the sound out of the Wadia & I feel that I have it where I want it now. So, the Wadia's sound has been largely optimized in my system (sure there can be improvements but I think that I'm at the point of diminishing returns).
Often the recordings that sound most analog thru the Wadia are the ones that are 2-mic recordings such as "Blues Union", "Meeting by the River", those recorded thru DSD format like "Healin" & those using the JVC K2 process. Not surprising!!
I think the advice in this thread is pretty much dead-on: you don't have to spend a whole heck of a lot for the vinyl to setup to beat the digital. About half the cost of your digital setup should *easily* do it, from my experience. I personally like the Nottingham Spacedeck w/ the latest SpaceArm & the Teres designs. Superb dynamics & PRaT! The scary thing is that you have sooooo much choice, you could very easily get analyes-paralyses choosing one!!

I've heard A CAT System many years ago hooked up to a Goldmund Reference Turntable System and a special Van Den Hul Cartridge and I will never forget that unbeliveable stunning sound.Just left digital totally in the dust ,no comparison at all.
I don't thing you realize just how great a CAT can sound in a great analog rig.You're in for one great ride,and I'm sure you will end up dumping the Wadia.
I know thats a bold statement to make,BUT IMO your in for a real treat.
Personally I would sell the Wadia and throw the money into a mid level VPI deck,and get yourself a top end phono cartridge.