If I may ask something relating to this thread topic, which speakers makers of yesteryear use excellent drivers and can be found today used for a reasonable price. I picked up my Merlins a few years back for a very reasonable price.
One thing I contemplated is to build a heavier cabinet for drivers that originally came in light weight cabinets but in which the drivers are of high quality and can sound better. |
Just purchased a Focus FS88 a few weeks ago with a 1 and 1/8 inch scanspeak revaltor. Its a beautiful tweeter I could definatly live with, does everything my old Seas did with a touch more refinement. For my tastes its a huge improvement over the Titanium & Berlyllium, this Focus sounds better than my Altos, JM labs Utopias, 800N and absolutly crushes the Wilson Sophia. |
I wouldnt call the Seas dark, what I enjoyed most about this tweeter was that at higher volumes when I wanted some slam I found a more tolerable balance between treble and bass. My most memorable and enjoyable track was listening to the tapping of cymbals on Mighty Sam Mclain's so tired of these blues. Heard the same track a few hours later on my friend's Dynaudio C2 and the sweetness just wasnt there. Of course the room and associated gear plays a role here, I guess there is just no better or worse..its all a matter of preference. Thank you all for an enjoyable thread. |
Good then from, based on your opinion its final, the Scan is better than the Seas'.
Thanks for your sharing your experience.
"the Seas' Millinium is DARK".
hehe.... |
late to this thread.
I own an Italian speaker that uses SS Revelator for years. Before that, I used to own several speakers with Dynaudio Esotar (SF Extrema, Dynaudio Confidence 5, Merlin VSM, etc) for many years as well. I also owned Tyler Linbrook monitor with SEAS Millennium for a few weeks.
Like most people's observation, SS is most dynamic, has best transparency, airy like a ribbon, and has most details. SEAS is somewhat dark sounding, relaxed and smooth, but too smooth that it lacks life.
Esotar used to be my favorite because it has body, fullness, and details. But after owning Revelator for a few years, I can happily live with either Esotar or Revelator. I do wish Esotar has more dynamic and airyness, but different night brings different mood and I like both equally. |
Combining soft domes and ribbons is probably the best way to go.You get both warmth and delicacy.The Fountek ribbons seem to work well with domes although I have friends who use Ravens in this manner.
Dali is now using this combination in some of their speakers.
JT |
Exactly. We really need to beging talking in more speecifics than the ususl generalities of the past 30+ yrs.
If a tweet/midbass/woofer is superior than others in its class, we should have the confidence and courage to state so.
Lets begin a new era of critical judgements. One that does make the necessary acknowledments. |
The kid makes a good point in that drivers alone don't make a speaker. I've had the H420, Hll89, the alon alnico and the millenium tweeters (all are SEAS models) all here at one time or another. The millenium is one nice tweeter, I thought of it as organic sounding, it has body. Of the other SEAS tweeters I enjoyed the H1189 next best. The others are aluminum dome and sound a little more brash, I'm thinking you would prefer a soft dome tweeter.
I am now using the Esotar tweeter in the Merlins and I find it to be another sweet sounding tweeter, perhaps a touch lighter and airier than the millenium.
In my opinion the one thing the millenium lacks is perhaps just that touch of lightness and airiness (the SEAS alnico tweeter had both in spades).
Again, perhaps these differences are due in larger measure to the design and implementation of the entire loudspeaker. |
Jm labs titanium, B&W Nautilis, and the Esotar Im ready for something a little less forward and revealing. Gotcha. Either of these options will be more relaxed and forgiving than those you mention. The Scanspeak is a step in that direction, and the Seas yet a bit further. I'm sure you'll be quite happy with your choice. |
What I mean by some tweets may have slightly better here, slightly better there characteristics, is that a tweeter has a low/mid/high end.
The tweeter has the highest range of all 3 drivers. fq's 2K-25K on AVERAGE.
a midbass woofer has like 40-2500 fq's.
So the tweet has many demands placed upon it.
The T25 seems to be a design that achieves a balance of the low-high end range of fq's. And does this with a woundefful non-coloration/true reflection in fidelity to the ogiginal imprint.
Read velo's comment, "I've found the Seas T25 to be an absolute pleasure".
I wholeheartily agree.
Boki, Seas makes many tweets. Their top of the line if the T25 Millinium, it has a copper ring around it. You can go to madisound for a picture.
All of this is like esoteric info, which should not be the csse, You audiophilies need to know what drivers are out there, by which labs, and which speaker manufacture is using what.
You may begin to realize you are overpaying for some brands, and as well not acknowleding other brands for the parts they use.
Do your DD, due diligience.
I put hundreds of hours in my research before I purchased my speakers.
And it paid off as a success. |
Yes this is why D'Apoloito decided to use the best drivers avaliable, the Seas.
Sure you may find a tweet with a little more of this, a little more of that. But overall balance, non fatigue, clarity, fidelity , its my personal belief the Seas T25 is a fine tweet. Few would disagree.
Some here may in fact prefer the Scan's over the Seas' for whatever reason.
maybe they feel the Scan is better for their jazz. Who knows. |
Newbee, I've heard countless speakers in the past 35 yrs. I had one of the finest in my 1981 Philips 2 ways.
I believe its the same tweet used in one of the Macintosh designs. But after hearing the T25, the Philips weaknesses were clearly revealed. As good as the philips was, the T25 clearly showed to be the result of 35 yrs of further danish research and testing.
Now of course its only an opinion and thus modifies my belief as to my sensibilities. We all should feel we know what sounds best for us.
When I first heard the Seas I knew this is the tweet for me, no other would substitute.
Now you do realize we are talking subilities here. But are we not all in search of the finest speaker in all subilities/nuances of bass, mids, highs?
I believe there is atweet that is very highly praised over at the Madisound speaker forum, Many claim its the finest.
But of course I'm not buying. Its the Seas' T25 that is the standard by which all other tweets are measured by.
Anyone know the name of the tweet highly praised over at madisound, has 3 different models?? |
Ive owned the Millenium on my Audes Orpheus and found them to be an absolute pleasure to listen to Boa, and yes I do enjoy the Esotar tweeter but I am starting to develop OFH, ( old fart hearing ) and find myself missing the smooth extension and decay of the Seas. Tyler's ref 3's remind me of Jospeh Audio's Pearls, Im not making a direct comparison but at about 5k they seem like a safe bet. Thanks for your help and looks like I will get the Seas tweeter, I think after the Jm labs titanium, B&W Nautilis, and the Esotar Im ready for something a little less forward and revealing. |
Keep in mind that the drivers and tweeters are important as they do have their own characteristics. However, the crossovers and enclosure types are very important as well. I have heard speakers with best of breed drivers and tweeters just sound, just okay.
I have also heard other speakers using the same drivers blow me away. I guess my point is don't get to hung up on drivers. Find the speakers in your price range and go hear them if at possible.
Audition, Audition, Audition.
Good Luck,
Chris |
Velo62,
If you are a fan of the Dynaudio Esotar tweeter in your Sonata III's, I think you will find the Scanspeak to fall in between the two, sharing some of the chiseled focus of the Dynaudio and some of the emotional warmth of the Seas.
Let us know what you decide, and how you like the outcome...once you've allowed some major break-in hours on the speakers. |
Bartockfan, It's Sunday, a slow day for most. Why don't you take a moment to describe your 'hearing sensibilities' so we can all appreciate the value of your post more clearly (not that I necessarily disagree with your conclusion). :-) |
The seas T25 is the finest tweeter in the world.
Ever made.
Of course if you do not have the hearing sensibilities that I have yopu will not understand what I'm saying. |
i hope you don't mind jumping at your thread, but I'd like to know something which could be usefull to the original poster as well. I have Vienna Acoustics Haydn Grand, and as far as I can tell it has Seas tweeter inside. but, do someone know which model of Seas tweeter exactly, I have tried to find some more imformation about it, but no luck? |
Apples and oranges perhaps but, FWIW, I have the Tylers with the Seas Millenium and in comparison to the Dynaudio tweeter in my other speakers it is a pleasure to listen to CD's with the Millenium whereas the Dynaudio tweeter is far more dependent on source, amplification, and set up. Which is more accurate? Probably the Dynaudio. Which do I listen to with more pleasure, the Seas. Probably the differences are similar between the Millenium and the Revelator, but I'm just guessing on that. |
Velo62, I can't compare the two for you but can speak on the 1" Scan-Speak Revelator silk-dome tweeter used in a dÂ’Appolito configuration on my Coincident Total Eclipse speakers. I find them very transparent and revealing. Certainly one of the finest tweeters I have ever owned. With tube OTL amps they seem to have a perfect ability to play tonally with exacting resolution without ever sounding unpleasant. I find them excellent in reproducing everything from Lucinda Williams to Wagner. I find them lacking not a thing. I hope this info is of some value to you. Happy Listening! |
Pretty much as Boa2 says, except the differences are pretty small, Audio lore; SS like toobs, and SEAS tend towards solid state. I prefer the SEAS over the SS. But then I like my coffee black and my beer the same color so ---- what's in your flavor wallet?
BTW: if your leaning towards the Taylor, you might wish to visit the Madisound and check out the Oden, and Thor kit speakers. I prefer the Oden with a sub over the Thor but then, see above. The kits are very very very good, and if you can use a screw driver your set. The cabinets are of high quality.
Also check out Ellis Audio. Dave's an excellent fellow. |
Boa2 said it perfectly. I own Tylers that use both, and they are of equal quality, just different IMO.
The Scanspeak is a bit more detailed, and the SEAS a bit more natural. I personally have a preference for the Revelator, but my main Tyler speakers use the Milleniums and I am very happy with those too. Both are superb tweeters, and I don't think you can go wrong with either one really.
---Dave |
If you're familiar with tube brand characteristics, I would compare the sound of the Seas to Brimar and the Scanspeak to Siemens. The Seas sounds less defined, very relaxed, pillow soft on the edges of the notes, totally non-fatiguing. The Scanspeak has a bit more sculpted presentation, also non-fatiguing but with perhaps a little more shape and jump to the vocals, in a word, articulate. Pick your poison, as both are very good. |
