Here’s the issue with multi box DCS systems - you need to spend a lot on accessories (Cables, footers, etc) to have them sing. Take a look at my system description to see what I mean. You can easily spend close to the cost of the base stack to optimize it.
While I own the full tweaked out Vivald stack the dealer I work with suggests that the Rossini gets you most of the way there. I would therefore recommend that whatever direction you go you have your dealer loan you a Rossini to try out in your home. It should easily best the Puccini and might be exactly what you are looking for (and you can always add a clock and possibly master clock as well) and requires minimal add ons. Of course if you are flush the Vivaldi one is also an option ... but I wounder why if you are that spend you don’t go for the full stack and all the flexibility it offers
All the DCS dealers I’ve worked with will do loans so start there
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There is no EMM Labs transport available for sale so if you’re looking for a combo that’s out. In any case, EMM Labs is the opposite of analytical sound.
I understand that Esoteric has gotten less analytical recently but based upon my experience, I recommend you start there.
Seperately, unless you know a system quite well, you’re not learning much of anything in a showroom versus your system. You should be auditioning units in your system. |
I own an Esoteric K-05 and it does not sound analytical to me, it sounds great on cds and SACDs. I understand that you will get more detail with their better players (I haven’t heard them), so that might be what you consider analytical? I’d include the Esoterics in your auditioning for sure, but I can’t say if they are what you’re looking for. |
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@gerryah930
I do own fully tweaked full four DCS Vivaldi stacks (Vivaldi master clock, Vivaldi upsampler, Vivaldi DAC, Vivaldi CD/SACD transport).
Like folkfreak suggested earlier the DCS stacks would require tweaks eg footers, high quality cablings, etc in order to get full potential. As for cablings I’m using all Transparent Opus power cables & XLR analog interconnects in my system. As for digital interconnects for my DCS Vivaldi stacks I’m using Shunyata Research Sigma. As for speaker cables I’m using Transparent Magnum Opus.
The EMM will be a great option as well. Some people prefer it to the DCS. IMO the EMM is more analog sounding more liquid and more fluid than the DCS or Esoteric.
Besides the DCS Vivaldi full stacks, EMM & Esoteric other spectacular option to consider will be the MSB Select 2 DAC with dual powerhouses (dual PSU one for the digital side & the other for the analog side). The Select 2 DAC is MSB’s flagship line and is very expensive. The DCS Vivaldi full four stacks are also very expensive. I haven’t got a chance to listen to the MSB Select 2 DAC (with dual powerhouses) yet. Someday I’d love to compare them with my own DCS Vivaldi full stacks in my own setup and system.
But I’ve heard from other people that I can trust that the MSB Select 2 DAC (dual powerhouses) will beat a full DCS Vivaldi stacks in musicality, fluidity and in general would give you more analog and natural liquid sound than the DCS Vivaldi full stacks. Better overall. I’m very tempted to try them out and possibly make a switch to the MSB Select 2 DAC with dual PSU. I know they are all system dependent and it will depend on your associated gears, speakers & cablings.
gerryah930,
A little off topic regarding the rest of your gears : your McIntosh preamp, Audio Research power amp & Wilson Sasha 2 speakers. I’m quite familiar with McIntosh, Audio Research & Wilson Audio. If I were you I would change out your linestage preamp from Mac to ARC. ARC makes much better preamps than Mac. No comparison. You can use Mac power amp either SS and high-powered vacuum tubes. Mac power amps are very good. ARC also indeed makes outstanding amps especially their Reference line.
I used to own the ARC Ref 10 linestage preamp paired with 2 pairs of Dan D’Agostino Momentum M400 monoblock amps driving the Wilson Audio Alexx. They were great combo. I have since upgraded to the Naim Statement gears : Naim NAC S1 linestage analog preamp & Naim NAP S1 monoblock amps. I have also upgraded the speakers to the Magico M6. The Naim Statement preamp & monoblock amps are pretty big step up from what I had previously (ARC Ref 10 linestage pre/D’Agostino Momentum M400 monoblock amps 2 pairs).
These Naim Statement preamp + monoblock amps are cost-no-object design gears.
IMO the Magico M6 is also superior to the Wilson Alexx in all areas.
But I’m still using the DCS Vivaldi full four stacks as my digital front end source components.
However I’m still using the ARC Ref 10 phonostage pre for my Kronos Pro turntable.
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Thank-you everyone for your expert feedback, and please keep it coming if you have recommendations.
Probably the only way that I am going to know is to buy some home demonstration time. This is going to limit me to DCS products, as my local dealer, Paragon Sound, who are great, only sell DCS products in the niche that I am in...
I meant for the definition of the word "analytical" as the ability to discriminate different instruments, hopefully across a wide dynamic range. I did not mean to define it as "anti-musical", but I realize that this word has various meanings among domains.
caphill - I agree with you in regards to McIntosh versus ARC, but ARC preamplifiers have no tone controls. Having just read a book by Floyd O'Toole of the Acoustical Society,- he judged that the lack of bass was one of the biggest challenges in sound reproduction.
Three high-end SACD/CD/DAC combinations for sale on Audiogon right now (or maybe they have been sold), including 2 from Esoteric and 1 from EMM. Still pondering...still dreaming (Jimi Hendrix) |
I've never had tone control in any of my linestage stereo preamp. My current Naim Statement NAC S1 linestage analog stereo preamp does not have tone control either. All ARC linestage preamps do not have to control. Before using the ARC Ref 10 linestage preamp I was using the Dan D'Agostino Momentum linestage preamp which does not have tone control either. All high end preamps usually do not have tone control. Having tone control has to go through another circuitry and it degrades the signal purity. That's why all high end preamps including those exotic ones do not have tone controls.
McIntosh makes good amps but their preamps are too syrupy warm masking musical details and nuances somewhat and color the sound and lacking musical presence and musical drive as well as rhythmic drive. ARC linestage analog preamps are way better than the McIntosh stereo preamps they aren't even in the same league. The ARC preamps are quite a bit more expensive than McIntosh preamps though especially the ARC Reference series preamps such as the ARC Ref 10 & Ref 6.
Rogue Audio P7 linestage preamp is better than any Mac preamps. |
The D’Ag Momentum preamp has tone controls. |
I suggest you include Marantz SA-10 SACD player into your consideration. |
anwar - I have often wondered about the Marantz SA-10 SACD player. I heard the PS Audio DirectStrem combination and they seemed fine, although slightly less resolution than the DCS Puccini. The Marantz, on paper, would seem to represent a good product, but I have not read any reviews, although it has been out for a while, and I have not listened to one.
bar81 - The D'Agistino Momentum preamplifier sounds great, and the cost is not a problem, but I am more of a tube person.
caphill - I agree with you about the McIntosh - but I did get a great deal on it, and it reminds me of my youth. About bass - an instrument I used to play - my listening room is mostly underground or surrounded by 4 ft thick stone walls. Bass is a problem, and after reading Floyd Toole's book (2017) - "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms (Audio Engineering Society Presents)", I realized the room was not properly reproducing very low frequencies (<40 HZ), a range I can still hear in my dotage. I could have inserted an equalizer into the loop, but I actually like the dulcet sound of the McIntosh preamp, which I can bypass if need be, depending on the music.
I may have found a solution to my search....more to follow... |
Do you have the clock? Maybe you just need to optimize the Puccini to get what you are looking for. The clock makes a big difference IMO. |
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Vitus Audio makes really good digital front end components they are very musical very analog sounding. I don’t know if you have access to Vitus Audio. They are Danish. I would put Vitus a serious consideration and they are comparable with DCS, Esoteric and MSB. CH Precision, T&A, Tidal, MBL, Soulution also make outstanding digital front end components. All these along with DCS, Esoteric & MSB make phenomenal gears If you can afford them. The Marantz SA-10 is good but not on the same level as these guys. I’ve heard the Marantz SA-10 and it is very good very fluid musical.
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I have only heard the high-end T+A ("T plus A") player/DAC and it was great. I have not heard Vitus, CH Precision, MSB, Solution or Metronome, but they do have expensive product offerings and they seem to be of high quality. In my travels in Europe, folks seem to still value SACDs and CDs, as well as high-resolution downloads and streaming. |
If the answer is tone controls or equaliser, may i suggest that you are asking the wrong question?
I second caphill's opinion re the Mac preamp.
It really has no place in a system of this calibre.
Philosophically your system seems stuck in the 70's. If you can't change your room, change your speakers, add subwoofers....anything but tone controls. A switch to an ARC Reference preamp will increase bass extension, control, tonality, PRaT, everything really.
Quite often in audio there is no clearly better option, just differing interpretations, but this is not one of those instances; if you take caphill's advice you stand on the threshold of a giant step forwads |
If you were only doing redbook I would say just purchase a CEC transport, but since you have a nice collection of SACD's Esoteric Grandioso with a matching master clock.
When it comes to CD's Esoteric & CEC are the best in class.
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