Upgrading form Pass integrated amplifier to a better one
Hello,
Currently I have a PASS INT-250 integrated amplifier . The Pass INT-250 is a very good integrated (in my system it was overall better than Plinius Hiato, Gamut D150se, Mark Levinson 535, Vitus RI-100, Accuphase E-470 and some others) but I can't get rid of the feeling that I miss some explosiveness (drum kicks for example) and micro details.
I know that its not the speakers. The new Sonus faber tradition I have are much more open, dynamic and airy than previous Guarneri Evos, Elipasas SE and Amati Anniversarious I used to own. And before buying them I auditioned the Serafinos with Audio Research separates and it was the amazing combo. But I really prefer not to go the separates road ( ICs, power cords and space contribute to financial constrains also) and even so I like the combo of Pass and Serafinos overall but from time to time looking for some better integrated on the market.
Currently I presented with a good opportunity to buy latest Gryphon Diablo 300 integrated or latest just released Accuphase E-650. No possiblilty to demo them, so I am asking here on the forum if anybody can comment if Gryphon Diablo 300 or Accuphase E-650 will be better integrated than Pass INT250 overall and
especially in terms of dynamics, micro details and harmonics.
Any advise and opinion would be very appreciated.
My system: Esoteric K-05x, Pass INT-250, Sonus Faber Serafinos, all cabling are the Shunyata Sigmas.
Room is 12" wide by 17" long. Listen mostly acoustic jazz and chamber classical on low to moderate levels.
pokey77, yes there are dealers, you have to ask the distributor. Gryphon separates are very expensive, so is the dac. The least expensive stand mounted speakers are $30k, I think. Also, if you really consider Gryphon integrated listen to Ypsilon Phaethon integrated as well. More expensive, less powerful, no dac or phono option but.. It's hybrid design and a quite unique one.
Sounds like an all-Gryphon system is out of my budget; but would still be fun to hear. And if the Ypsilon is even more expensive, I'd better not even go there.
Ypsilon Phaethon integrated is $25k retail. I have not heard it, but by all accounts it is great. Gryphon Diablo 300 should be able to drive very well many different speakers.
Some update, the Gryphon continues to sound better. I have around 150 hours on it and I think its fully opened up and sound outstanding. For sure in anther league from Pass INT-250. Now, esoteric will increase its retail pricing across the board worldwide by 10-15% on 12/24. This and great offer from my dealer pushed me to do a long wanted upgrade from esoteric k-05x to esoteric k-01x. This is the final step to achieving what I want and I am done. Once hi end streamers become less expensive I will look for something like Aurender N10 in a couple of years.
One of the most interesting thread I have come across in recent years. I have been considering replacing my ARC tube separates with a top tier SS integrated for several years now. I have a pair of Verity Audio Parsifal Encore with 89db effeciency that I like very much.
Would like to pair a good SS integrated with those and reading through this thread it would appear that a Vitus SIA-025 or Gryphon Diablo 120 would likely be a good match. However, like you guys in the US there is no possibility to audition either one in Canada as there are no dealers or distributor.
It would replace an ARC REF3 LE and a pair of Classic 120 mono’s that we’re both modded by GNSC a few years ago. They produce 110w/ch with satisfying loudness level in my 15’x 23’ room. Would love to hear a Vitus or Diablo 120 in my room with the Parsifal. I feel that a Diablo 300 would be overkill.
This would be my very last amp. I would however likely keep my REF Phono2 and Weiss DAC. Anyway as someone pointed out somewhere above, very good thread indeed.
If it may be your last amp why not make it the great first ? Diablo 300 would be just right and would bring more out of your speakers. Listen to youtube, same Gryphon speakers with Diablo 120 and Diablo 300, you can hear the difference - much more powerful and easy going sound.
denon1 Granted that the diablo 300 is more powerful but other than you who else says the 300 is more refined than the 120? Have you listened to the 120 in your system to make your conclusions? Yes the diablo should have better bass and possibly play louder but with the right speaker tell me why the 300 would be more refined?
Bob, I did not listen the 120 but I called gryphon myself and they told me that diablo 300 has class A dual mono preamplifier stage that is taken from their refference preamplifier. This contributes to more deatails and better instrument placements in the sound reproduction The 120 does not have it.
denon1, Ok, that would make a difference. I had thought that the Diablo 120 was simply a scaled down version of the Diablo 300 using the same preamplifier stage. 6 moons will be releasing their review very soon on the 120. It will be interesting because they had reviewed the Diablo 300 and I am sure there will be some type of comparison. I know the 300 is a beast.
I shall wait for this anticipated review. Why pay more for added power that it is not really needed. I currently own a pair of tube monoblocks delivering 110w/ch with satisfying results. Watt for watt, I wonder if a Vitus SIA-025 is not a better amp than a Diablo 120. There are 2 SIA-025 for sale here on agon for $14K.
I have heard the SIA-025 and it sounded sublime. Since the SIA-025 has been out for a few years used pricing is a great deal. How it compares to either Diablo would simply be a guess in my part.
I have had both the Diablo 300 and the 120 over for audition in my system. The 300 is the beast to get. My Pass Int-60 held its own against the 120 but fell on its face compared to the 300 imho. I’m saving up for the 300 unless I get lured into getting the new Luxman L-509x
mi4, I've never seen the word 'thin' being used on Gryphon before. I've heard the original Diablo, and the word 'thin' never came into my mind when listening to it. Where did you hear the 300? I wonder how a system can be setup to make a Gryphon sound thin...
I must agree also that the Gryphon is anything but thin sounding, I think it is one of the best amps made at any price today. If you are a lover of classical music this is what the 300 was made for ,the treble is extended and so smooth. I have heard it driving their own Pantheon model and also Zingali Client name speakers.The two speakers are entirely different beasts with the Zingali being very large horns for midrange and treble and huge dynamic woofer for bass. The Pantheon If I had to say anything about the two would be they are the most accurate of the pair and the dynamics with them are mind blowing ( you should hear an orchestra at full pelt ) and of limitless power. The Zingali clients through the 300 remind me of going to a favourite hall and listening to a string quartet or cello or violin, they add an enveloping glow that is memorable hours after the event. The 300 I heard had the DAC module inside and the way I see it it may be quite an expense for it but just think what you will save by not having to buy a power cord and interconnect for it. Also the DAC is styled on their wonderful Kalliope DAC and it is not too far removed from it. All in all anyone choosing the 300 will have an amp for life plus the DAC is upgradeable as technology gets better.
Why argue over what Mi4 heard. If you like Gryphon sound great, however there is a lot of extreme high end equipment that is lean sounding. Plus everyone hears differently.
smoffatt I have not heard the vitus SIA-025 but one of the concerns I have is that in some of the reviews I read is that the reviewers hint that the magic disappears running the amp in the higher output mode. Can you or anyone else comment on this?
Russell, yes I have heard same. The magic of the Sia-025 lies within the 25W class A mode. Since I have not heard the Vitus in my system or in any other system for that matter, I can not comment on the sonic attributes of either mode but I am quite confident that 25W class A will fall flat on its face in my fairly large room driving my Verity Parsifal Encore. Not sure how the 150W class a/b mode would sound like though.
I also interested in the gryphon diablo 300 but worry about the heat. Is it very hot after about 1hr use? Hot means unable to place yr hand on it for 30sec
Some may say heat is not a source of concern for hi end audio . I think it is big time. My previous audio research ss d100 was hot like an iron. Freaks me out
I'm not going to read through this entire thread but I hope you're still considering the Accuphase E-650. You can't compare it to the 470 so erase that experience from your mind. The Gryphon is good but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the difference between that and the Accuphase. Id put my own money down that you like the Accuphase better.
@denon1 - good move on the Esoteric upgrade going from K-05X to K01X. I did exactly the same thing earlier this year. A few months ago, I also purchased an Aurender N10. You will be handsomely rewarded!
Guys, my gryphon diablo 300 has about 200 hours on it and I think it fully burned in now. The overall sound is so refined but at the same time rich and textured, far from thin , cold or analytical, but at the same time I can’t say it’s warm or thick sounding, as I said before, it’s closer to live sound more than any integrated I had and heard.
i will also put the end to some concerns about heat. Yesterday I used it non stop for about 7 hours and it became just moderatly warm to touch. The pass int-250 has been much warmer in my system.
greginnth, thanks. Looks like I follow your steps, next on the horizon is aurender n10. Also bought stillpoints ultra ss to use on k-01x that should come in a week.
I have a set of SF Serafino powered by the Rowland C500 Integrated. I've rolled a few amps passed these (ARC, Moon, Primare, TACT, Naim) and found they are a bit fussy. I found no combination unworkable but was surprised at the differences. In my setting the C500 is perfect, keeping the high end smooth and the bass full but tight. I could have lived with the Primare I30 as well, surprising good balance and detail from a smallish package.
If you are still looking at upgrading your sources i would highly recommend Totaldac as some of the best out there.I have auditioned the Esoteric N-01 and the Totaldac Seven same price point and my choice went to the Totaldac Seven no hesitation.Totaldac much more analogue sounding and natural.You should also check out Melco against the Aurender N10.All the best. http://www.totaldac.com/D1-seven-en.htm
I'm with John K. Get new speakers instead like Wilson Sasha. I heard 30k recent model of SF with Mac monos. Yeah the sound was chocolatety & smooth but lack the liveliness & air.
Hay,i have the Esoteric f-05 amplifier, Luxman sacd 06u and the ilumnia magister speakers. ( ilumnia.be). So Natural, detailfull ,pure sound. I never heared music,all instrument, so “correct”.You can listen for hours. You enjoy and feel the music. Beautiful high,mid and low. Speakers review: Ear magazine,hifi.nl,...
Finally, Gryphon is getting wider recognition, though in some circles especially in Europe and Asia it has been very well known. Anyone compared more or less directly Diablo 300 and Ypsilon Phaethon ?
I own the Diablo 300 and heard the Ypsilon Phaeton a while back so I can’t really say it was a direct comparison. I think at this level, it becomes more of a personal preference, synergy between components and cabling. The Diablo of course has much more power on hand so it probably tips the scales if difficult to drive speakers enter the equation.
Looks like a rainy rainy weekend here in NH so I guess I will be reacquainting myself with the Diablo 300!
Just read a review in positive feedback on the AudioNet Watt that left me drooling. In my dream world I wish someone would do a shoot-out between the Absolaire, Ypsilon, Gryphon, T&A, and AudioNet.
Yeah. Also, Flemming Rasmussen likes large scale music, according to his own words, so this should be factored in. My guess - Gryphon would win in dynamics and bass, Ypsilon would win in tone depth tapestry and overall sophistication. I would most likely choose Gryphon because of availability of the optional great phono board and the dark deep Scandinavian character.
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