Vandersteen Sub woofers v Rythmik Subs

@bondmanp 

Not really. Rythmiks also have the connection to feed off the amp taps, have phase and Q adjustments. But having more variables, hence options, also introduces more uncertainties, which is why sub integration is such a difficult task especially if done without measurement equipment

Ahh ^That^ is interesting.
The Vandy line is designed to be in phase all the way down… So I was concerned that some other sub could be way out of the “driver’s acoustic” phase.

@500homeruns  aka  Steve : I slogged thru the M12 manual and didn’t see a high pass filter, settings for it and IMO a phase accurate filter ( after all you did buy a time and phase accurate speaker in the Treo - congrats btw, you should consider joing tge vandersteen owners forum on the Vandy site. Not everyone there owns Vandy subs. There are more than a few Treo owners w other subs…well integrated… )

First the Treo in most rooms are flat to 40 hz. You can implement the low pass filter in the M12 if desired. Having the sub play higher than 40 hz will create some swarm effect and smooth in room response. Obviously the sub three has 11 bands of EQ below 120 hz and is not powered by a garden variety plate amp. I wouldn’t discount 3 x 8” and a power factor corrected feed forward optimized amp…but hey the do cost $ for a made in USA sub/amp. You may want to borrow a M5 high pass filter and see what that sounds like at a range of settings. Mid bass slam and midrange clarity are typical improvement as load comes off the main amp. You can then either buy a set of filters OR implement them inside your Rogue power amps.

Have fun, let me know if i can help.

Jim

Thanks for the replies!

@tomic601 Jim, The NAD has the crossovers listed as “Main Frequency” and “Sub Frequency” on page 12 (Speaker Setup) of the manual:

Steve - M12 is a feature laden beast for sure, my eyes glazed over by page 12.

short answer is yes, use high pass built into M12 . I don’t have any insight into how phase correct so steeper slope’s probably better. Key will be experimenting and listening. I would download vandertones ( free test tones on Vandy website ) . That will help you pinpoint room modes and ameliorate w placement, tweaked to crossover freq and as I mentioned in prior post partial swarm w purposefully choosing overlap.

jim

Excellent!

Thanks Jim 👍

So I did look at some of the Rythmic models on their website, and appears that the speaker level inputs are standard speaker level inputs.  This is completely different than the Vandy design.  The plate amp on the Vandy sub has a very high resistance rating, so it draws no power from the amp.  But the Vandy sub amp has a built in first order roll up beginning at 80 Hz.  The crossover you insert between the preamp and the main amp has a corresponding roll off, first order.  So, while you could set up a Rythmic sub to mimic this feature, you are not connecting the mains and the speaker level inputs to the same main amp tap like with the Vandy sub.  IMHO, that's where the magic happens.

I have heard of the rythmic method before. Maybe it was in one of @tubebuffer  posts?

I have an older Vandy 2<something> subwoofer, and it seems to work fine.

Hi,  I have owned two Vandy 2wq subs for almost 10 years, they integrate very well with my Gradfent Revolution mains (passive version). About a year ago i read about the swarm DBA system and decided to add two passive  10 inch B&W sw10 subs with the Dayton 1000w amp that is used for the swarm system.  It works okey having the Vandy subs in the front and the passives on the back, but really the Vandy subs make about 90 % of the spl of lows in the system the system, I don,t know if those B&W subs are not adequate ( I think they are more marketed for HT instalations and are not very efficient nor musical), those are 4 ohms and I,m connecting them in series to make the load 8 ohms. Do any of you can recommend  to upgrade those back passive subs, preferably with  some DIY solution where i could buy just the drivers and make the enclosures locally. i,m located in Mexico and ordering a couple of  Audio kinesis subs would be very expensive to ship down here.  I have a gut feeling that those B&W subs can be substitued for something better and that this idea of combining both aproaches can work. What do you think?

I think Rhythmic might have a flat pack kit cabinet, that would be fairly economical to ship. You might first try putting more input to the B&W subs, for a swarm to work you need fairly consistent output from subs in different places in the room to cancel out dominant modes.

Jim

Thanks Jim for your suggestions, what surprises me is that most swarm users use only one of the same Dayton 1000 amp for the four subs. My room is medium size 23 x 14 x 10 and i do not listen to more than 90 db at the sweetspot.  Will check what Rythmic has to offer.