I've tried three different brands and they all had their own sonic signature and each brand sounded better in one direction over the other.
There was a money back guarantee on all brands and all it cost was the price of shipping if I didn't keep them. I've returned things before that didn't impress me and they were more of a hassle to ship than a few fuses. They work, and if you haven't tried them, your opinion of them is not objective.
All the best,
Nonoise |
|
Mighty Casey struck out more than he connected. |
@trelja
Thank you for that reasoned and intelligent observation. |
Let's also not forget that a fuse is not "just a wire" anymore than a speaker cable (unless it's supported in an oversized sleeve with no terminations) or interconnect is "just a wire". If we can get over that grossly oversimplified premise, then we can step back and take a look at what it really is: a component.
We need to understand that it's a kind of filter, and how it interacts with what's upstream and downstream.
A common, run of the mill fuse has endcaps, solder and wire made of some of the cheapest metals around and not of the quality one would find in a good cables. No one in their right mind would make any cables with those cheap and impure metals. Nor would they make traces on a PCB board with the same materials.
Everyone agrees that no fuse sounds the best, so just what is it that degrades the sound? Bueller? Bueller?
The question that should be addressed is just how much of a change a fuse introduces, not that it's so small as to be insignificant. That undercuts the very argument of those who rely solely on measurements alone.
Evidence abounds with how a small change in something can result in a larger change when everything is summed. That's obviously the case here. Observed empirically, there is a change and the only recourse for naysayers is to demand double blind parlor tricks?
On another thread, a link showed how Paul McGowen was subjected to a completely blind test in where a friend changed something in his amp without his knowledge of what it was and it was for the better. I believe his friend did it a couple of times and Paul consistently heard the improvement. He couldn't explain it, but heard it, and accepted it. So say I.
And as for the costs, my Brimar fuses are outstanding, compared to HiFi Tuning and PADIS fuses and are only $35 apiece. That's chump change and well worth the investment.
All the best,
Nonoise |
The actual quote, in it's entirety is: Everyone agrees that no fuse sounds the best, so just what is it that degrades the sound? Bueller? Bueller? The question that should be addressed is just how much of a change a fuse introduces, not that it's so small as to be insignificant. That undercuts the very argument of those who rely solely on measurements alone. Now, keep typing, if so inclined. All the best, Nonoise |
I still find,
"so small as to be insignificant" to be the salient point of the entire statement ...when taken out of context. It's just like removing the fuse from the equation to make a point have more significance than it does. Again, some amps designers say that using no fuse sounds the best but it has to be used, for safety purposes. I find that to be quite a salient point. 👍 All the best, Nonoise |
Chalk up another one who can hear. 👍 |
It could be due to the mix of fuse brands that led to niskymichael's results. I've found that different fuses have different sonic effects.
HiFi Tuning fuses tend to accentuate the leading edge of notes at the expense of everything else whilst PADIS fuses, after a long up and down period, tended to dull things a bit. With Brimar fuses, it was like opening that window on all things music.
As for which component gave me the biggest results, it was my SACD player that took a big leap and the integrated, maybe half that, but it was of a different order. The SACD player benefited from a musical stand point and the integrated, a strength stand point.
All the best,
Nonoise |
The fact that the current travels both ways doesn't negate that something in that current (say, a fuse) doesn't sound better one way over the other. If the fuse is directional (and I've heard it with three different brands), then it would sound better one way over the other. Granted, it wouldn't protect any better and no one is saying that, but it would sound better. You're conflating two different aspects. Or maybe, ignoring one.
What's also a stretch is that one is advising removal of fuses when no one advocated it, except I believe, in a speaker.
All the best,
Nonoise |
|
I've posted this link on connector tests where it was determined that connectors are the villain. The author would measure and leave and came back and measure again only to get a different result, all the time. Nothing was touched or changed. Bare ends were determined to be the best way to connect a wire. This was in a military application where it was crucial to have consistency in reconnecting equipment which happens to operate in the same range as audio equipment. So can a fuse holder be considered a connector? If so, is it as unreliable in being consistent as other connectors? Could that account for the differences when measured after rotating a fuse in it's holder? If so, it wouldn't account for sounding different when reversed. Just a thought, which I'm sure will be shot down. All the best, Nonoise |
If so, then something else is afoot as I’ve clearly heard a better presentation when the fuse was in the correct orientation with three different brands. The odds of just breaking contact and reinserting a fuse on three different occasions doesn’t hold water as I’ve even put the fuses back in the wrong way only to hear the difference and take them back out and put them in the right way (not three times but once was enough). Maybe Clark’s three laws applies: - When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
- The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
You can add a fourth, which would be a variation on the 3rd, which would state: 4. Any sufficient advance in audio perception is indistinguishable from magic when it can’t be measured. All the best, Nonoise |
As I've already said, I've swapped out three different fuses and they all sound better one way than another and when replacing one set of fuses, I put them in the wrong way and it was immediately apparent.
Once you orient the fuses by placing them so that they read the same as the print on the PCB, or the other way (using the orientation as reference), it isn't due to chance reinsertion. It's the orientation of the fuse. If you're saying that it's due to reinsertion, then why does it consistently sound better one way than the other?
Also, tell me how the contacts of the holder change when inserting something circular.
All the best,
Nonoise |
@timlub
Thanks for thinking it through and taking the $4 challenge. 👍
Not too dear a price to see for oneself if there is something to all
of this. It opens minds as well as doors. I just wish more were
willing to try instead of decry.
Don't take it personally if you're deluged with demands for double
blind testing or that you're delusional or suffer from expectation bias.
For some, that $4 could have gotten a subscription to Skeptics Weekly.
😄
All the best,
Nonoise |
@georgehifi
So the best you can come up with is a blocked video link to a song that’s suppose to mock me. The horrors, the horrors!
Pony up the $4 and try it out for yourself or just continue, it’s of no real concern for me as it seems to give you purpose in life.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Okay. As I’ve said elsewhere and here, The HiFi Tuning fuses that I used were the Silver Stars. They were okay but I could never get the highs on my speakers to have as much presence as the rest of the spread until I reversed them, some two years later out of boredom. I was never a believer in directionality until then. Then I had all the highs I used to have with my previous speakers, along with better presence and definition.
After awhile, I tried PADIS and though they showed promised, they had that rollercoaster break in period where they got better, and then dulled, and finally after a long break in, settled in on a very mid range emphasis with somewhat recessed highs compared to the HiFi fuses, with a bass that was fulsome but not that well defined.
With Brimar fuses, I get everything that seems to mirror what others have said about SR Black and Blue fuses at a fraction of the cost. Detail, extension, clarity, definition, sound staging, presence, musicality, coherence, separation and anything else that can be attributed to great music playback. Add in strength and dynamics as well.
Looking back, I’d say that the HiFi fuses (Silver Star at least) favor the leading edge of the note at the expense of everything else. Attack is great and they grab you at first listen but leave you wanting more after hearing something like Brimar fuses.
It would be nice if someone could compare SR Black or Blue fuses with Brimar to see how they fare. Brimar are sold only from Asia and seem to be made for asian and European markets as an alternative to what we can get stateside. They are made by Telos (Germany). They go through very similar treatments (cryo and a form of Quantum treatment) and use premium metals (gold plated silver end caps and silver fuse wire). Hope that helps.
All the best,
Nonoise |
So, after a plea from the OP to keep it civil and on topic, someone just has to question the motives of the OP, ignore the topic of the OP, and insult the participants, and it’s others who bother to humorously retort that get deleted.
That's rich.
All the best,
Nonoise
|
One can substitute all the audio references you've mentioned with any other topic and it would handily apply. People need to keep an open mind, question authority and actually experiment, which science demands of us. Some like to cling to tenets and what they consider dead documents which results in zealots, fundamentalists, dogmatists and fanatics. I could have saved money if I thought that way but then, my stereo would suck.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Keeping it real would entail knowing something instead of surmising something. |
I prefer to hear it for myself instead of falling back on some manual and pretending it doesn’t exist, afraid to think of, and hear it. |
Georgie Boy, you've must have spent a couple of hours scouring for those.
👍 Good boy!
That last one must have really gotten to you. Hell, good for me. 👍
I never said I had "electronic engineering knowledge" or training but how would it disqualify me from appreciating my gear? You, on the other hand, appear to know all there is to and yet your cries are getting fainter, your world getting darker.
Are you actually implying that you can't tell if a performer is turning or facing away from a mike? What's it like being able to build an amp and not be good at it? To not make something with enough resolution to almost recreate an event? I'm sure it measures well but maybe you need some new schematics.
Oh, and there were a few others who thought the very same thing as I did when graphene was first discussed so don't forget to look them up as well and berate them while you're on a tear. You can't let all that pent up energy go to waste. It can give you the shakes (adrenaline and all).
I just tweak off the shelf gear and get great results. 😂😂😂
Maybe you need a refresher course or it could be you simply don't have good hearing. Despite good rote memory and those "electronic engineering" skills, they simply can't make up for your poor results.
You need to get a life, Georgie Boy, and concentrate on something other than me. You're so easy to analyze but it would be too cruel for me to dissect you. I know you need to do this as it's safe in the virtual world and you suffer no real consequences save for making a fool of yourself but, what the hell Georgie Boy, knock your socks off, go back, and spend more hours ferreting out past quotes and don't forget to take your meds.
All the best,
Nonoise |
I admit I shouldn't have responded but George has infected many threads here on A'gon. Just one look at some of the topics here show him as a crasher and a bully. He spares no one and it just got to me. Sure, he has an opinion as valid as anyone but it's his abusive nature that got the better of me.
Like Doug, I will now ignore any and all of his comments and get back to my normal duties as the average audiophile, here for the fun of it. 👍
All the best,
Nonoise |
As for fuses wearing out, I just posted this on another thread and it's just as relevant here: For those who still refuse to "know" how an aftermarket fuse works: HRC Fuse consists of highly heat resistant material (such as ceramic) body having metal-end caps, which is welded by silver current carrying element. The fuse body internal space is completely packed with a filling powder. The material, which has filled the insider space, may be plaster of Paris, quartz, chalk, marble, dust and cooling mediums etc. That’s why it carries normal current without overheating. The heat being produced vaporizes the silver melted element. Chemical reaction taking place between silver vapor and filling powder results in high resistance substance, which helps in quenching the arc in fuse.
and, - It clears high as well as low fault currents.
- Do not deteriorate with age.
- Having high-speed operation.
- Provides reliable discrimination.
- Require no maintenance.
- Cheaper than other circuit interrupting devices with same rating.
- Permit consistent performance
- Fusing operation is fast without Noise and Smoke
This is from a normal site on fuses, based on years old knowledge, and available to anyone who would care to look at it. But that would be akin to actually trying it, wouldn't it? All the best, Nonoise |
If a mere fuse caused any audible change in sound in any of my equipment then you can be assured I would be rid of that useless POS boat anchor equipment in a flash. If a mere fuse makes an audible difference in your gear then you can be pretty much assured that anything else electrical you own or anything electrical your neighbours own will ALL affect your sound according to what is or isn’t plugged in.
So, if you owned any gear from PS Audio or Wyred4Sound, you'd get rid of it? Rather hasty, wouldn't you say? All the best, Nonoise |
Like, try a fuse for yourself and then you'll know? 😄 |
I am a fuse adopter, with a digital front end. After the improvement, I replaced the fuse in my integrated. (this is beginning to sound like a 12 step program).
As far as voiding a warranty, come on. I grew up in a household where most of the work was done by ourselves, from repairing cars to opening up HiFi gear and TVs and replacing fuses, tubes, dials, belts, etc. If we couldn’t get it to work, then we called on a neighbor and if that didn’t work, we called an electrician, who was the guy down the street or a friend in the business.
All the best,
Nonoise |
All of what you've mentioned has been gone over many times and disputed by those who have tried fuses. Their accounts are right here on these forums for you to go over and they are rather detailed. To go over them again would be fruitless as this is a thread for those who've tried them and know they work and it shouldn't be derailed by those who don't believe in their efficacy.
I suggest you try it for yourself or start a thread denouncing fuses and have at it with like minded individuals.
All the best,
Nonoise |
That is true, but the ones I've seen that say there's a difference, actually heard the difference, whereas the ones that say there are no differences, say it without benefit of hearing it for themselves.
It seems that false equivalency can be had in all manner of fields.
All the best,
Nonoise |
What's it like to go through life doubting everything unless it's objectively tested? My neck would sure be sore looking over my shoulder all the time. |
It doesn't take a careful reading of George's last posting to see that it's his mission statement to be as big a troll as he can. Thanks, George, for finally telling the truth.
If you don't feed the trolls, this thread can survive.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Cheers George (potential forum cop) Does that come with a plastic badge? |
And your on the hit list also sunshine.
A troll that threatens, and runs to the mods to get posts deleted. I'm quivering in my boots. |
There are some now who offer them or just put them in as standard. A while back there were some posts naming them. |
No, it does not behoove anyone to do any such thing. To behoove is to state that it is the responsibility or duty for a person to do something. That is flat out ridiculous on it's face. No one owes you anything save for relating what they hear(d).
If you doubt it, it is your responsibility to test it for yourself, which you consistently refuse to do.
All the best,
Nonoise |
^Well, I thought I made it clear that I'm not demanding anything Then why state that it behooves someone to do so? Hearing a difference when an ordinary fuse/wire is reversed falls into the category of impossible, by my definition Good for you. We think otherwise. And, by your own statements, I don't need to submit any proof what-so-ever that it is in fact impossible Goose and gander. If you really believe that, then stop saying we have a duty to. Just pointing out that one should be honest *with themselves* That's flat out insulting and it's about time you stop with this moral high ground of yours, implying we're not being honest with ourselves. It's so passive-aggressive and possibly, a projection on your part. All the best, Nonoise |
It's deja vu all over again. A specialty of trolls. |
@gdhal
A troll is a troll is a troll.
I don't think, for a moment, that you over did things back in the days but just enjoy talking in circles, contradicting yourself, raising trolling to an art form.
All the best,
Nonoise |
I've highly recommended Amy > Bob > Amy > Bob, however, Amy > CSNY > Amy > CSNY is acceptable. That would make as much sense as Bob > Carol > Ted > Alice. Just another way to keep on trollin' mama. All the best, Nonoise |
I thought trolls were self aware. My bad.
Yes, the U.S is a great place to visit. I've met people from other countries that love the U.S., during any season.
All the best,
Nonoise |
@nonoise
No, no, no, son. When you go out into the world and make stupid statements with no basis in reality, it's not up to the world to prove a negative. It's up to the claimant to prove the positive. That's how it works in science and the law. Your inverted thinking and shirking of your responsibility is repugnant. If your claim is you're experiencing a purely psychological phenomenon, say so and stick to it. If there's some science behind it, it's on you to prove it, and until you do, the doubters are on solid ground questioning you, your observations, and your honesty. You're wrapped way too tightly costco. Empirically experienced events are a part of science. I'm not asking anyone to prove anything as I'm content to know what I hear. It's only those who carp on about it that need to try it for themselves, like you. Otherwise, how will you truly know? Falling back on a manual just won't cut it. Nor does hiding behind an engineer's skirt since we've all discovered that there are engineers who've heard improvements with fuses but can't explain it. "Science and Law". Are you some kind of magistrate? A leading authority? Be still my beating heart. To claim it's a purely psychological phenomenon doesn't help your position. You're just throwing words around, unless you're saying you can feel or sense it from afar. You weren't here when I installed the fuses, where you? Do you do remote viewing? As for the doubters, the ground is getting shakier and shakier the longer this thread continues. It's going to be fun to see them go to earth once they hear it for themselves. Or should I say, if they ever try it. Most won't because this is their oxygen. All the best, Nonoise |
That would be true. However, I'm referring to your addressing kosst_amojan as costco. Please refer to your 04-27-2018 5:19pm post. That was in jest, gdhal, as to not be so serious, high and mighty. You're really reaching now, aren't you? |
kosst,
This thread, let alone this site, is nowhere near a court of law. To conflate the two is silly, on it's face. It's apples and lobsters, and about as relevant that the two are.
You still present yourself as unassailable, not to be countered or contested, as if you hold all the cards. I sincerely hope you take better care in civil court and not think that how and what you say here can carry the day there.
And George, whatever...
All the best,
Nonoise |
You’ve stooped to a new low. Name calling? You, of all people, are being quite hypocritical. Firstly, to say someone needs to calm down (which is what "wrapped too tightly" implies) is not name calling. You’re jumping at the first opportunity to strike back. Calm down. Secondly, you’ve implied that we who hear differences in fuses are delusional, that we hear things, that we’re dishonest with ourselves, that our intent is to mislead, etc. Look in the mirror and think twice about casting that stone. Oh, and I was informed that I had a post removed, probably because it was a bit too snarky. To be honest, I can’t locate it. It isn’t all one sided so as to develop a persecution complex. All the best, Nonoise |
|
kosst, The way things are done in a civilized conversation don't necessitate having to prove what is empirically perceived. I see, hear, touch, taste and smell things all day long and need no one to tell me what is real or imagined. Isn't that was phenomenology is about? "an approach that concentrates on the study of consciousness and the objects of direct experience."
That sounds a lot like what we do when we hear the differences that a fuse can make. As for a "body of evidence", how about the many tens of thousands who've tried it, hear it, and enjoy it? How do you discount that? Do the marketing skills you have tell you they are all deceived? Your example of a divine entity being believed in for two, opposing reasons, one where it represents those who believe in fuses for no good reason, and to be discounted, and the other, where the body of evidence amounts to a domino theory which you say represents your side and is to be believed in is a head scratcher. One takes a leap of faith, the other can be directly observed, over and over, by anyone who cares to try. All the best, Nonoise |
A "body of evidence" is in no way developed by amplifying the number of people suffering the delusion What a ridiculous thing to say: thousands of people suffering some form of mass delusion. What's next? False flag scenarios? Pizzagate morphing into Audiogate? And what exactly is "empirical perception"? That's a concept so fundamentally flawed in premise it should be obvious.
A concept so fundamentally flawed that we do it all the time in our waking lives. Because you think you perceived something it must be manifest in outside world? Duh...yes. Or is it the shadow cast on the wall of the cave by the fire? Where do I even begin with how wrong that assumption is? Please don't. You're giving me a headache. Go back and forth with George. He's more your style. All the best, Nonoise |
And, here, we, go.
kosst thinks he's Merleau-Ponty, in the flesh, to dole it out with a pleb.
You've read up on phenomenology, empiricism, gestalt and association,
levels of perception and the like, and that is how you argue the efficacy of fuses?
You've a troubled mind dear kosst and when getting no where in an argument on fuses, you resort to this? Spare me your brilliance and expertise in a field apart from audio. Are you the kind of person when someone says "it's the truth", respond with something lame like, what is truth, really?
All the best,
Nonoise |
You're lucky. I had Soupy Sales in my youth. I later graduated to Monty Python when they first started showing here, stateside. No one else could fill the gap. My mother thought (knew) it would make me crazy.
🤪
All the best,
Nonoise |
Odysseus should have had it so easy. He could have done the whole thing and got home to Penelope earlier. |
