Well Tempered Amadeus

today i removed the finger lift,and i found the sound is better than before,the bass is more clear,the treble is more smooth and get more detail.

Hi Tbg, sounds like you know exactly what you need. Can't argue with that. Did you try one of those universal lifts on the Shindo?

My problem is trying to hit one cut on the record as well as lifting when I get a call. I dealt with the Shindo Labs tt for years and had enough of no cuing.

Clarification, Samtse....the finger lift is standard. The "option" for some has been to remove it, and just cue using the arm wand itself. It actually is easy to maneuver in that fashion. I can see where some people would still prefer to cue with the finger lift.

None of the tables I've had in recent years have had arm lifters on them, and I've never trashed a cartridge (and I can be clumsy!)

Hi Hesson11,i mean i use the opional finger lift which can be attached to the cartridge fixing screw,adjacent to the right hand side of the plinth.

"it looks universal"

Yes, it does. The only question I'd have is whether the height range would be a proper for for the Amadeus.

-Bob

Hesson11, it looks universal. Thanks.

Tbg,
I don't know what "the option" is that Samtse mentioned, but I'm wondering whether you saw this link I posted earlier in the thread to an add-on tonearm cueing device from Yamamoto:

http://www.jacmusic.com/Yamamoto/html/Phono/index.html

Scroll down to the last item on the page. Not sure it's size would be exactly right for the Amadeus, but it might be.
-Bob

Samtse, would you please explain the option? Thanks.

Hi Thg,i use the option,i didn' direct crue the arm

Samtse, I read in one of the reviews that the finger lift torques the arm around. True? This may be a "no deal" for me as I have a right hand tremor.

Hi Oldgrey, no it does not. I leveled mine with the shelf from the rack it sits on. Easy peasy...

Question for you Amadeaus owners --does the table have leveling capability? If not, can you describe your audio isolation/leveling set-up? Thanks!

H[ chashas1,maybe i need to borrow annother cartridge

my overhang is perfect (and that's what they said)...
Sam, I truly think you are worried about absolutely nothing.:)
my only suggestion, and this is just hypothetical, is if you could borrow another cartridge and see what happens. After all, a lot of cartrides are ****...

Hi Chashas1,i think the overhang it's not been done,Overhang is 'distance between diamondtip and spindle',so you can check your Amadeus,the overhang is it correct?
Sam

No need, it's been done for you. No worries...

0.5 inches = 12.5mm. Overhang is typically given in mm (millimeters). But thinking inside the box seems to be painful for WT. Anyway, what difference does it make, if you cannot adjust that parameter?

Hi Samtse,
it is in inches....there is no symbol for centimeters(cm)

i have a question.the Blog said(Overhang of 0.5)so i want to know overhang is 0.5 inches or 0.5CM?thanks.
Sam

the GTA has a different plinth which is wood sandwiched between aluminium. also the feet are different and the golfball is black. the GTA is on backorder, so i guess it has been selling well. i heard the stardard amadeus with a dyanvector xx2 and it is a wonderful sounding table. music really flows out of this table.

"what cartridges are you guys using on the amadeus. i am waiting on my amadeus gta to arrive!"

My dealer had an Amamdeus playing when I went to audition amps. He seemed to hold the following carts in high regard. EMT, not sure which one, Ortofon, and of course Dynavector, which has already been mentioned.
Maurager, just curious why you went for the GTA.
I have no doubt it's better than the standard Amadeus, but things have been a bit quiet on the GTA.
Apparently Mr. Firebaugh uses a different material in the
plinth. Can't remember what that material is though.

what cartridges are you guys using on the amadeus. i am waiting on my amadeus gta to arrive!

It's interesting to note that Sarcher30 found the Amadeus cum Dynavector 17D3 to sound so good, given that the 17D3 is one cartridge that has a very odd mounting hole to stylus tip distance, probably well outside (or inside) the norm. One would indeed think that the maker would provide the owner with a list of cartridges that will line up to some acceptable geometry when mounted in the fixed holes of the tonearm headshell. By the way, this issue applies to all the earlier WT tonearms that I know about. Samtse, you refer to "grids". Does the Amadeus come with some sort of template that has grids to align the cartridge body in the headshell. (There might be some wiggle room in the horizontal plane.) If so, that's probably what you need to do. Then just enjoy the music and fuhgeddaboudit.

Thanks, Chashas1. So if I understand you correctly, you CAN adjust the tracking angle simply by virtue of the "play" afforded by the cartridge-mounting screws in the headshell mounting holes, correct? (BTW, by "twisting" in my above post, I was referring to twisting the cartridge, not the headshell, which I know is fixed in position.)

Is there also enough "play" to achieve the optimum overhang of 0.5"? It seems this would be difficult to do, considering the widely varying lateral distances between the mounting holes and the styli of various cartridges.

These issues are not addressed in either the WTA blog or the user manual, as far as I can tell.

Thanks again,
-Bob

Bob, you don't want to twist the headshell...a cartridge will still have some play to make fine adjustments...the WTT website blog doesn't answer your questions?

Samtse, I wish I could help, but I have no experience with your cartridge. I have seen a wide variety of cartridges used with the Amadeus, so I'd assume you should have no problems...without being there I'm useless :).

Hi Chashas,on my previous post,i also said set up finished.but after i listen carefully many time,i found a little bit distrotion in high frequence on last track,so i check Amadeus set up again,but it's right,So i wonder is it i have not set the overhang?or may be Benz Micro is not suitable for Amadeus.thanks
Sam

Chashas1, I'm still kind of struggling to understand various comments about the Amadeus. If the headshell is fixed in position, how is it possible to "set the cartridge parallel to the lines"? This would imply you can alter the position of the cartridge in the headshell (i.e., by at least twisting it). But how is this possible if the headshell is fixed in position? Thanks for any help you can offer.
-Bob

Samtse, just set the cartridge parallel to the lines and you'll be fine....hopefully you've done so by now...seems to me you're overthinking over there...that is cut and dry.
What you want to concern yourself with is to be careful not to overdamp (do not submerge the ball too low in the fluid)

word on the street is Mr Firebaugh has many cartridges to play with....

Hi Sam,

No, I don't have an Amadeus, so I am not trying to tell you what you should do. But I am really curious about the turntable and am trying to learn more about its tonearm/cartridge geometry.

I guess I really don't understand your question. As far as I can tell from reading the Amadeus blog and the owner's manual, you're just supposed mount the cartridge in the fixed headshell and be done with it. It seems to be impossible to adjust the overhang or the tracking angle. I don't understand what you mean by, "the nude point of the protractor is 1 7/8 inches." What exactly is your question?

On the Amadeus blog, it states:

"After my investigations, I decided to relieve users of Amadeus of the issue of setting tonearm geometry and to use a fixed geometry. Based on the comprehensive analysis of J.K. Stevenson in the May and June 1966 article Pickup Arm Design and based on the dimensions of several phono cartridges in my inventory, I designed the tonearm for Amadeus to have a fixed tracking angle of 19 degrees and an overhang of 0.5”."

...and...

"The Amadeus Headshell is factory fixed in position. The Well Tempered Lab unequivocally reiterate that it should not be moved."

The owner's manual states:

"The headshell is fixed ex-factory in the optimum position. There is no provision for over-hang adjustment."

This seems to imply that all cartridges in Mr. Firebaugh's inventory produce an overhang of 0.5" when mounted on the fixed headshell of the Amadeus. That means every cartridge he has must have the same distance between the cartridge's mounting holes and the tip of the stylus. Given the wide range of this dimension that I've found among cartridges in my experience, this is difficult to believe. Perhaps it would be helpful if Mr. Firebaugh told us which particular cartridges produce an overhang of 0.5" when mounted on the Amadeus??

-Bob

Hi Bob and Sean,did you see the Well Tempered Blog?the WT Blog say the overhang is 0.5 inches,and the nude point of the protractor is 1 7/8 inches.so i think if you are Amadeus user,you will know my question,by the way.THANKS.

Sam

Samtse, I don't believe there is any adjustment for overhang on the Amadeus. The unit I auditioned just had holes in the headshell not slots.

Baranyi, I heard side by side a VPI Classic and Well Tempered Amadeus at a dealer in Seattle. The comparison was not completely fair because the Classic had a Dynavector 20xl and the Amadeus a Karat 17d3.

I preffered the sound of the Amadeus with the Karat. The difference in sound was exactly like the discriptions of the two different cartrides I have read online. The 20xl had great bass but is a little closed in sounding on top.
The 17d3 is more open sounding and the bass is less strong.

So I think both tables are great but I bought the VPI because the dealer was selling the demo to get the newest version. Also it is nice to have a tonearm lift. The lack of overhang adjustment on the Amadeus is not a good thing IMO. I did like that you could adjust azimuth on the fly on the Amadeus though.

I'm using a van den Hul Frog on my Classic now and it sounds great. Very open sounding with solid bass.

Cheers,

Sean

I have no firsthand experience, Samtse, but I've read a good deal about the Amadeus, and from what I understand, you're not supposed to align the cartridge in the traditional sense. Rather, you just affix the cartridge to the fixed headshell. No adjustment is advised. Is this not the case?
-Bob

anybody can help me?

Hi Chashas1,I have one more set up question,did you set Overhang(i saw the Well tempered blog ,and they say the 'overhang' is 0.5 inches but i can't adjust that)?or just set the cartridge parallel to the lines on the protractor is Ok?thanks

Great!

Hi Chashas1,Yes

So Samtse, did you finally get things sorted?

it easy to cue the the arm,don't worry,

Thanks for the info, Ghunter. Damn thing is that I was in a shop that had one. But at the time, I wasn't there to look at turntables, so I didn't try it. I don't think I even noticed that it didn't have a cueing lever. I like Firebaugh's maverick ways!

-Bob

Hmm, I guess only you can be the judge of how shaky your hands would be but short of a neurological condition I can't see how the WTA wouldn't be easy to handle. Remember that the arm design on this table is very unique and it doesn't sound or handle like other tables on the market. I'm sure if I'd tried it this way on my VPI tables I would have had poor results as well.

Hi Ghunter,

I'm kind of thinking about getting a WTA (and also kind of thinking I really shouldn't spend that much). My concern is that my hand just isn't steady enough to handle the arm safely. I've seen the video demonstration on the Amadeus blog and tried the same method on my current arm. Scraaaaatch! I'm not really THAT old and shaky (yet), but I ain't quite as steady as I used to be, either!
-Bob

Bob, are you a current owner or someone who is thinking about the WTA? Personally I've found the lightweight arm incredibly easy to lift and cue.

I wonder if the Yamamoto Hydraulic Arm Lift could be easily fitted to the Amadeus for those of us who may be a bit shakier than others.
-Bob

Scroll to the bottom of the page:
http://www.jacmusic.com/Yamamoto/html/Phono/index.html

I have recently added a Herbie's 5mm Turntable Mat and Supersonic Stabilizer to my Amadeus GTA, and the differences are astounding.

http://herbiesaudiolab.net/ttmat.htm

A much quieter background and deep well-defined bass are the results, with no perceived negatives. The reviewer for the Absolute Sound was right when he said that isolation would help this table. I believe I've taken the sonics up a notch again with these simple isolation tools.

Thanks for your comments. It really seems to be a special product. I am thinking about either downgrading or simply getting rid of my digital setup in favor of a second TT. The Amadeus is certainly my main prospect. Hope this all helps the OP.

The sterile comment was in reference to my VPI setup. It was excellent sound, but the WT has so much more life to it. I'm also hearing small details that I never knew existed in my records, like echos on voices and guitars and resonance on acoustic instruments.

After adjusting the table a little bit, everything is locking in and I am going from "quite happy" to "absolutely ecstatic" with this change.

Ghunter said: The WT has so much more life and sounds anything but sterile. - Congrats on the new table. I have heard it twice, and it sounded very good indeed. I am curious about your anything but sterile comment. Was there someone earlier on in the thread who suggested it may sound sterile, or was the comment more in comparison to your VPI SM setup.

I have had my new Amadeus for about two weeks now. The tonearm is extremely light and damped and therefore quite simple to easily move and control for all functions. Because of those characteristics, it was an easy adjustment for me to make, going from a tonearm with a cueing lift mechanism to the Amadeus tonearm's spartan mechanics. And it is one hell of a turntable! YMMV, of course.

How do you find life without a cueing lift?