I've never understood the appeal of Journey. Tweakgeek - yes, U2 'borrowed' mericlessly from Joy Division. Yes, Joy Division borrowed mercilessly from Can and a few others. Yo La Tengo 'borrows' from VU, but that doesn't make their albums any less great. Artists borrow things all the time. (None of this should imply that I don't think that Joshua Tree -and U2 in general- is horribly over rated.)
James Joyce's Ulysses - pretentious as hell. Still one of the greatest works of English literature. |
Ok Ben,
I'll accept your challenge, sort of. First rule of any best album list is that greatest hits packages and compilations must be left off. To include them would be cheating. Second rule is that there is only one entry per pop star (I'm not going to dignify this silly stuff with the term "artist"). Also, none of my beloved Jazz & Classical recordings are included here. They play ball in a different league. Everything before about 1965, and almost everything from Jamiaca is excluded. The LP as a genre is largely irrelevant both to the 50's and to Reggae. You'll have to see my singles list for these. For the same reason, Soul and R & B are underrepresented here.
Ben, you are giving me a sort of Sophie's Choice. I cannot edit the list down past 18 entries. Here are Tweakgeek's fave pop music albums (in no particular order)
Joy Division-Closer
Clinic-Internal Wrangler
Van Morrison-Astral Weeks
The Pogues-Rum, Sodomy & The Lash
Roxy Music-Siren
Pere Ubu-The Modern Dance
The Stooges-Funhouse
Curtis Mayfield-Curtis
Black Sabbath-Sabotage
AC/DC- Let There Be Rock
Abba-Super Trouper
The Cramps-Gravest Hits
Killdozer-12 Point Buck
David Bowie-The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust
Bruce Springsteen-Nebraska
The Rolling Stones-Exile on Main Street
The Stone Roses-The Stone Roses
Led Zeppelin-Physical Graffiti
Now folks, can we get back on topic?
Let the abuse of my faves begin!
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hey, easy on the smiths. . . . . . johnny marr is some kind of living guitar god - one of the few true guitar-wizards who actually writes interesting licks instead of composing rediculous showcases of his ability that are boring and self-indulgent ie joe satriani, eric johnson, ect. (IMHO)
hmm, i guess i'm just adding fuel to the fire. . . . and after feeling insulted over the smiths comments. . . . . sorry guys. |
I don't think "pretentious" is enough to seriously damage a record. I think it can keep an album off a "greatest" list, but not relegate it to "Most Overrated", especially since this is all for fun. Iron Maiden's "Seventh Son of a Seventh Son" album, basically anything by Rush - of course this stuff is pretentious, but in some ways it makes it more entertaining. For me, rock has to have energy. I nominated Hotel California above - I find the Eagles to be completely lacking in energy. I just can't get excited about any of their stuff. A lot of music is situation dependent - your age, where you're hearing it, etc. Guns 'N Roses in your car is great. Guns 'N Roses in the midst of some "serious" listening - well, you have to be in the right mood. The Eagles - I've never found a situation that makes me go, "Oh yeah!". Not that anybody would consider him highly enough rated to qualify for overrated, but Jackson Browne was/is the same way - geez, that's a tired sound. Great Thread. |
I suppose whether an album is "overrated" must be assessed in reference to how an album is rated. When I was growing up, Sgt. Pepper's was considered the greatest album of all time by many, and it was the first record I owned. By that measure, it is clearly overrated for the reasons Tweak mentioned. Listening to it in the 1990s I found it dated. With an upgraded system, I have returned to it and enjoy listening to parts of it again. An influential album but not as good as the earlier hype or the other Beatles albums listed or "Pet Sounds" in some ways. Though far less talented than the Beatles, I have also returned to the early Stones stuff and found it much more clever and enjoyable than when I was listening to it on car speakers.
Though sometimes enjoyable, by the measure laid out above, I would consider The Who overrated. However, The Who and much of the music dismissed above I like much better than the new stuff I hear on the radio. Where might I turn instead? |
Seems like we've hit a raw nerve here. I've got to agree with Beowulf and point out that we would be well served not to take rock so seriously. If you are looking to drug-addled twenty-somethings to lay bare the true meaning of life, existence and everything for you, then you are in a world of hurt.
There is a reason for the saying "sex, drugs, and rock-and-roll." Take rock for what it is --- and enjoy it! If you are looking for truth and meaning, look elsewhere. |
Anything by Moby, Creed, Korn, M&M, Bush, Filter, Garbage, Smash Mouth and Rage Against The Machine......whoops got caried away. Ben Campbell, Neil Young's newest release doesn't even come close to how pathetic Zuma was. Never-the-less, Neil Young still remains my hero.
Here's my question: When todays youth is old and gray are they going to be sitting around the campfire singing songs of the bands I trashed?? |
Tweakgeek-give us a laugh-what are your Top 5 albums of all time? |
Regarding The Wall-to me this album singles the end of Floyd-with Waters ego taking over but alternatively indicating that he pretty much was being left to do it all himself anyway,the musical contribution that they all use to make was long gone by then,as such the cohesion of their earlier work is gone....
It's always been flawed to me-it would have made a classic single album and it does feature some great music but it does also descend into pompositity as the album progresses.
There are some interesting ideas about the world of the rock star but these don't really get developed or realised-Tbadder is off on some of his analysis as it's obviously a very personal album to Waters,I mean surely you are not suggesting that Water's ripped off the idea of his father's death during WW2 which hangs over the first quarter of the album?
As for the social relevance mmm not so sure maybe about school but most of society doesn't get to become rock stars,I think most of the impact tends to be on the personal themes-self-worth,alienation,lonliness,childhood and yes you are right Waters is hilarious his commentary on The Wall DVD is exceptionally funny. |
"that it was pretentious, bloated, pseudo-intellectual,and self-indulgent; apply doubly to this" thread. |
I agree sean, The Wall is a great album, that does contain a lot of deep seeded emotion by its creators...and to criticize Bob Marley? Damn Tweek, was it your time of the month when you started this thread or what? With crap like Britney Spears, Cleine (however its spelled) Dion, M&M....I could go on for hours, why are you railing such visionaries/pioneers/trail blazers like Bob Marley. Its fine by me if you dont like the guy, but give him his due credit. Do you really think Rasta music would be what it is today if BMarley became a banker rather than a musician.
As for the original question, over rated music, see above...I've named several people who don't deserve to be called musicians...tack on Creed to the list. |
Thanks for your responses. I'm glad that I was able to stir up some discussion. I'm even more glad that eveybody seems to be able to kvetch about LPs that annoy us, without getting nasty and abusive. Some of your choices for inclusion on this list are truly inspired, especially those from Kthomas.
Truth be told, a fairly comprehensive top ten list of the most overrated rock albums of all time might consist of Hotel California in the #1 slot, and everything The Smiths ever did in positions 2 through 10. I am also glad to know that I am not the only punter who thinks that Green Day bite the proverbial big one. |
The Wall is a horrific album. One can create all the thematic nuance and depth and still sound boring. A complete rip off of Fritz Lang's Metropolis, Jean Paul Satre's No Exit, and too many others to mention. This was Rock's most pretentious excercise. While I don't deny it's social relevance (a lot of people were sucked in by this album) it's still musically lacking in ideas, originality, and insight. This is proof that any thing can be sold to any one. I feel dirty writing about. Always loved Roger Waters though, very candid and funny. My favorite quote from him? "We're just bloody awful, and bloody rich." He then went on proclaiming how stupid Pink Floyd fans were and how he could fart on record and it would go platinum. Very funny guy. |
Of course this is the silliest posting of all time-you do not need to be Einstein to realise everybody dislikes something that is highly rated-there is hardly an artist mentioned (including my own posting)that I do not own or rate to some extent--the reason being I love music.
I pick up records where I might only like one track and collect poor albums by artists I love....I find Beowolf's comment about the Stones and Springsteen not being art interesting because I think I could a very strong argument that both these artists at their peak did in fact produce some (even if only snippets) of the greatest popular music of the 20th Century and because to me their content and impact went beyond entertainment then to me that is art........
Ultimately though only the specific listener can make their mind up but I do cringe when I see artists as important as The Smiths,Springsteen,Gabriel and the Stones slaughtered-I do wish most of these posters would give some indication of some music that is better,so I can go out and buy some more music or alternatively fall off my chair laughing....why has nobody mentioned The Cowboy Junkies...........only joking Garfish..... |
I thought the criticism of the Stones and Springsteen and some others was interesting. Its not supposed to be art. Mick got it right: "its only rock and roll but I like it." So what if its only three cords. Some great painters never used more than the primary colors. You can dissect it if you want but you miss the point. When you get the sound right, and turn it up does it light your candle? Without proclaiming something "is" or "is not" art I will answer the question on this thread as to what is "most overrated". For me that's anything by Jethro Tull. |
The Eagles - Hotel California
The Doors - L.A. Woman
Green Day - Dookie |
I agree with Sean.Other than Asbury Park,anything after that album has been nothing to shout about.My 02 cents. |
Interesting how you picked five records to disparage and I happen to like all of them quite a bit. Oh well, to each his/her own. I'm not sure I could honestly pick out five recordings to slam, like Sean they tend to come in bunches from the same artist.
1)Anything by Genesis (including the early days with Peter Gabriel) is garbage. Quickest way to get me to turn off the tuner in favour of a record or CD, put some Genesis on. Phil Collins' nasal whining is worse than nails on a blackboard. You want art rock? Try Gentle Giant, Yes, Jean Michel Jarre on for size.
2)REM can't figure out if they should make an attempt at being art-rock or writing hooks to get radio play. They fail miserably at both. Fascinating to listen to their catalog, a band truly without a purpose.
3) This selection will go over like a fart in church with many here, but...The Grateful Dead. I'm Grateful the band is Dead.
4) Aerosmith. How can a band write lyrics that closely resemble random thoughts of an average four-year old, then back it up with even less talent and become a mega-band?
5) The Rolling Stones. The most successful 3 chord garage band in history. If you can find any real meaning behind any of their lyrics, my hat's off to you. The musicanship is sub-par as well, the guitarist sounds like he died. Come to think of it, if you've seen Keith in the last little while, he has died and nobody told him.
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Actually Sean, that makes two of us (to hate) re: Springsteen. Also never caught on to The Smiths, and never understood what all the fusss was about. |
Good to a see a nice negative post-I like most of the ones mentioned so far to some degree however I concede that they may be flawed or overblown or most certainly overplayed but in the spirit of the thread here goes......
1.In Utero-Nirvana-Let's not forget Cobain renegotiated his recording contract so that he got most of the cash just before this release,how punk,what a hypocrite,sadly this pile of junk reflected the mess his tragic life was in,,in a crippling bout of pretentious self-indulgence he tries to rebel against his misunderstood last album and produce an unlistenable mess-he succeeds,sadly Nirvana's legacy becomes a load of 13 year old kids the world over standing in shopping malls and street corners with their Slipknot sweatshirts........
2.Out Of Time-REM
Sometimes it's just the right time for a band but this uneven mess was their WORST album up to that time,right time,right place,wrong record.
3.Brothers In Arms-Dire Straits
A sign of the times,a greedy attempt to sell millions and millions of records that worked-apart from maybe 3 tracks a real mess of an album,with the most annoying keyboard sound in the history of rock,Knopfler takes his magpie style too far,rips out most that was good about the band previously and turns into a man whose arrogance is only matched by his dullness.
4.Forever Changes-Love..
Always in the greatest albums ever-I always take it off right after Alone Again Or.............
5.Freedom-Neil Young..
Ah the last Neil Young album is always rated as his greatest since the 70's-this one got a particulary big cheer-featuring lyrics a 10 year old would be ashamed of.
He also reuses the same three chords to All Along The Watchtower in three different songs and well since he's using the chords may as well use the tune as well,like the sad sight sight of watching your grandfather playing his Gibson SG in the garden,Mr Young has neither the grace nor gumption to realise he is making a fool of himself.
Keep On Rocking In The Free World-somebody unplug that old geezer's guitar-pleeeeese.
Truly the worst collection of checked shirts in rock too........................... |
To respond to the above comments, all i will say is that unless you know a lot about the internal workings and conflicts within Pink Floyd AND have a solid background on English politics at street level, you will never come close to understanding what all of the hoopla is about with this movie or album. Even with good insight into both areas mentioned, one can watch this movie over and over again and still find new and hidden meaning almost every time.
As to being "over-rated", i'm probably going to step on a lot of toes here. Let's just say anything that Bruce Springsteen has ever put out. These alone might fill up the top 5 slots. Sean
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PS... just my personal opinion. please don't hate me for sharing my point of view : ) |
Anything by Sting, in any incarnation, only rivaled by Michael Bolton. Wish I had their dough, though. |
