I havent heard your TTs yet Thom. Would love to hear it some day.
What's the deal with idler turntables and do they have a place in modern HiFi?
After going through a complete overhaul of an AR XA I've been tempted to take a step further back in history and restore an old Rek-O-Kut idler turntable. Can't remember the particular model number from Craigslist, but it seems like it may be an interesting project and far more customizable than the XA, especially when it come to the tonearm. The one I'm looking at comes with the original tonearm, but my guess is that it's even more garbage than the stock XA 'arm and I'd certainly replace it!
However, I don't generally become invested in something if it doesn't pay off. So if the sound is going to be dreadful because it's an idler, then I'll steer clear. But if the sound is bitchin' then I'll jump on the opportunity!
However, I don't generally become invested in something if it doesn't pay off. So if the sound is going to be dreadful because it's an idler, then I'll steer clear. But if the sound is bitchin' then I'll jump on the opportunity!
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By the way, I also owned the Verdier previously (before deciding go direct and idler drive route). I agree that Verdier is more extended and more resolving than many of the DD and ID turntables. But I ultimately felt it is not keeping up with the tempo and pitch of the music. Music seemed to be dragging a bit. This is something I find in many belt drive TTs so I cannot single out the Verdier. |
Thom -I agree with your comments. As well I find it interesting that the higher up the ladder you go on a TT manufacturers line - the platter becomes heavier, whether we are talking about new tables, or restoring vintage ones. My Jean Nantais Lenco has an added heavy Metacrylate mat permanently glued to the Lenco platter matter. Whether this is for noise sinking and/or or speed stability, one thing is true from my own experiences - you need good brakes. You rarely hear any forum discussions on how a platter is doing its braking ? the Platine is the only table i am aware whose platter system by design is "smart", has braking from the opposed magnets to deal with the record behavior without electronics. When I introduced the 100 Lb Jean Nantais lenco idler into the room I was on version 6? of my DD project, and the modded TNT at the time was still running on belts used with the SDS. The Lenco raised the bar is some categories. I was impressed with the noise reduction with no suspension, solely based on damping and weight. The modded TNT matched the Lenco in tempo once thread was added, but it was not designed to run this way. . Then the Platine was added and ..... the delta so large that I just got back to listening to records. Been 3 years now I think. Pani - But I ultimately felt it is not keeping up with the tempo and pitch of the music. Music seemed to be dragging a bit. Pani - imo there are too many variables with vinyl to single out one area of a turntable system whether the table itself, tonearm, cartridge, wiring, phono stage.They all play a part. You can change out a cartridge with different stylus profile and experience your symptoms. Heck, you can move your speakers, cause bass issues which will produce your symptoms. You need to get the bass right for your selected speakers set up in the room or the music will drag... period. That has been my experience especially with speakers that are able to reproduce bass to provide compression in the room. So the turntable system has many parts and its the front end to the rest of your system. In the end it is setup error and it is all fixable. Whether someone chooses to fix the issue, or move to something else depends on them. I say this from personal experience and I think we have all made setup errors. I think you owned the Nouvelle Verdier table ? |
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ct0517, I didn’t notice the question you posted yesterday about the laptop until I looked for it just now. All I can suggest is that when it becomes practicable for you to do so you create a bootable cd or a bootable flash drive containing the free version of MemTest86, and use it to test the laptop’s memory by booting the laptop to that cd or flash drive (changing the boot order in the BIOS if necessary, to put the priority of that medium ahead of the hard drive). Apologies to the OP for the digression. Regards, -- Al |
just remembered - a tip for Lenco idler owners if you are travelling or your table will be not used for a while and you are using the hard rubber wheel. 1) Remove the platter and store it in a safe place. 2) Unclip the spring from the wheel. This will prevent wear on the spring and keep flat spots from developing on the wheel. Unlike a stored car, you can not pump up the psi on an idler wheel when stored.... :^) @Thuchan what material is your EMT wheel made of ? |
I would state this differently: no single parameter can be optimized without taking the entire whole into consideration. Any architecture will always have strengths and weaknesses. Intelligently optimized, varying architectures converge but ultimately still carry their basic DNA (the architecture's key attributes - their strengths and weaknesses). What about this scenario: Parameter is adding mass to (preferably the outside of) the platter. Surely the only downside is the weight (and thereby friction) on the bearing. If the bearing housing includes opposing magnets so that there is actually no weight on a thrustpad, then that parameter can be improved without any negative downside. Or is there some other thing that will to some extent mitigate the inertia value of the extra mass? |
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When An Idler Drive TT has undergone a 'Correct' amount of Servicing Procedures and as a further measure maybe had a Stock Platter Bearing exchanged for a different Platter Bearing, that is with good reports as a part and seen to be a Upgrade, if all is done correctly the Idler Drive TT is a very attractive TT for the Price to Performance ratio. A GL 75 is proving today to be a very affordable Base Model TT with many affordable parts available to Support Servicing and original parts have a reasonable supply of Exchange Parts that can be used. A Web Search would show how to discover the wealth of information available to make informed decisions for a project. When an Idler Drive such as a GL 75 is used in the Serviced condition as above, it will sit comfortably as a comparison in the company of a Model from the usually referred to Idler Drive Brands. As a comparison to other TT's with different Drive Systems, it would not be a Speedy Exercise to discover a TT with an Alternate Drive to show a Major Improvement in a Performance, especially near the same cost outlays. If a Off Board Speed Controller is coupled with a Idler Drive, the noticeable lift in the Performance will make the challenge to Improve on its performance, when compared to Alternate Drive TT's a even bigger search to find models to surpass it, with similar costs. There are to the experienced ear, as well as my own, that has experienced various TT Motor Drives methods as side by side comparisons, noticeable differences in the Delivery of the performances from Idler Drives, Belt Drives and DD's. The preferences expressed by individuals for the unique deliveries are choices to be made by the end user, and the Delivery that is determined to be the most satisfactory and is assessed as offering the most satisfaction for a Performance and Budget Allowance, will hopefully be the factors that help with a end choice. I personally know GL75 owners/enthusiasts and admire their work carried out on the GL TT's, through travelling to Social Events, I have met other GL enthusiasts and have been impressed with their works undertaken. I also know and visit Two TT Owners, one with a SP10R and one with a SME that have adopted the GL75 as a Second TT in their Systems. In my limited worldly experience, it does seen a Idler Drive TT can become a desirable TT to experience and for certain types become Wed To. |
Andrei, At least on a theoretical basis, some designers actually do not like high mass platters because they retain (store) vibrational energy imparted on the platter from the record itself which is vibrating because of the stylus tracking the groove. Audio Note, for example, uses a light weight acrylic platter, but achieves the benefit of high inertial mass and high torque motors by using three large motors (belt drive). I have no idea if this particular design is what gives their top end tables their particular sound, but, they do have the kind of drive and punchiness that I hear with good idler tables. |
