Working on a system upgrade. I recently purchased:
Krell s300-i Integrated Cambridge Azur 840c CDP/DAC Streaming Apple Lossless wirelessly from a G4 Powerbook (other side of the room) into an Airport Express, then optical out of the airport, into a Musical Fidelity V-dac, then RCA into the Krell. Ps Audio Quintet Power Conditioner I'll swap out outlets as well...sometime soon.
Looking for Power cords. Something under $350 or so.
I'm putting together a diy power cord 4 Gauge solid core. I'm still working it out to stretch out as much sound quality as possible. Its been a lot I mean alot of work in endless man hours to work with something so massive,But when I finally get this nailed down I think I will have something very special indeed. But I do suggest that u maybe get ahold of usedcable.com and maybe u can try out several commercial cables from them I beleive they charge at first a 10 percent fee of the retail cost of the cable and apply that toward a purchase at a later date.
i spent enough on the pc's to nicely compliment my electronics, and not enough on the pc's to either adversely impact my lifestyle, or impede such things as my charitable endeavors. as for the krell; the sale of my previous amp and preamp covered a substantial percentage of the cost incurred by the krell. additionally, purchasing an entry level krell integrated amp manufactured in china is not all that expensive in the greater scheme of things...and that truly is nice.
ps all, i have given the audience speaker cables more time to burn in, on the recommendation of terry from audience, and i could not be happier with the results.
How much did all that experimentation of PCs cost? I guess if you have the money for Krell than money is no object. Must be nice. Meanwhile down here in the madding crowd,my $35.00 miovas are getting better and better.
Has anyone replaced the built in PC on a Hafler 220 with a standard power outlet so that a good power cord could be used? I have to think it would not be hard, and could elicit very good results.
Tvad, your right! But there has to be more of us out here that don't change wire like socks! Maybe there are but they just don't peruse this site so often...
just chiming in with my experiences over the last couple of weeks. in many ways i feel that it has been to much, to soon. undisciplined...definitely introducing to many variables at one time.
the following, edited slightly, is excerpted from an email i shared with nasaman. i hope it sounds somewhat coherent (pun intended)...
...as for the shunyata. after purchasing the taipan helix, i then bought an audience au24 "e" pc. now faced with the dilemma of proper placement, i experimented with where to place each cord. bottom line, i found that while the au24e's transparency very admirable, and i like and get the idea of not introducing any color to the music, i ultimately decided to go with the shunyata from the quintet into the krell.
a slight detour; the krell was bright to begin with (i come from a history of tube equipment, audio research, with a linn lp12 as my primary source). in a bid to reclaim space in my small nyc apartment, i am trying a solid state integrated, ripping all music to hard drives (apple lossless), with cd's as my backup (now, all in binders). a major goal in this project is to push the krell in a more analog direction, while retaining the strengths inherent in solid state designs...end of detour.
the au24e seemed to bring out more brightness, and while everything was tight, i lost a good deal of the bass slam that krell seems to excel at. i now have the shunyata attached to the krell and into the quintet. i am very content not to change that combination. the taipan restores the bottom end, is fast and natural, and it has also taken most of the bite out of the top end harshness. that's not to say that i am losing anything, i don't think. actually, i find the taipan a better match for my electronics. the note decay of cymbals is accurate and natural, and you get that sense that you are hearing brass, without any harshness. the taipan also allows for a more expansive soundstage. it seems an appropriate match for the krell, and i am happy to leave it that way (unless i move up the shunyata ladder...not likely anytime soon, given prices). the au24e is now from con ed power and into the quintet. i may have to try another cord there, given it's affect on the krell.
i also bought an au24e ic for the cdp into the krell, and au24's for the speakers. again with the speaker cables, the overly bright sound was back. my 10 year old set of mit terminator4's allow for a much more robust natural sound, and so are once again connected (i gave the au24's about60 hours). it seems i have to rethink the whole audience thing. i was expecting great stuff from the au24e's, and i believe great stuff is there, but with my system at least, that synergy is not. i still want to try other speaker cables, with purist aqueous anniversaries, and kubala sosna facinations on the top of my list. i don't quite know what i think about the au24e interconnect betwwen the cdp and integrated. i am still using the stock pc from the cdp. i will no doubt look to get another shunyata. most likely the taipan vx, or python vx, (if i feel like eating macaroni and cheese for awhile). i also plan on replacing the current wall outlet.
the shunyata, krell, cambridge, sonus faber, combo, to me, is a real winner, and would strongly recommend trying it out. i get wide and deep soundstage, naturalness in note decay, fast tight response all up and down the frequency range, and i'm enjoying the bass that has been lacking for quite some time.
hope this helps, and that the rambling wasn't to exhausting.
thank you again, one and all. your input is very much appreciated, and i hope that it continues.
Tvad is right on with his statements. And in my experience replacing the stock powercord makes a bigger difference then interconnects or speaker cables. The trick is to find the right one for each piece. I have a Krell and a Unico Int amp and the powercords that each of them like best are different and cross switching them yields poorer sound for both amps. Truly maddening..
Upgrade Powercords seem to do some or all of the following: 1. Filters out A/C noise 2. Rolls off the highs OR tips them up. 3. Tightens up the Bass 4. Speeds up or Slows down the music's pace. 5. Becomes Capacitive which I believe is what increases dynamics.
Why doesn't anyone use or recommend SR Master Coupler any more? These cords were among the first aftermarket cords that became popular. I still use 2 on my digital front end....just curious.
I've been on the powerchord train for awhile and just got off. Two Shunyata Taipans for my SimAudio monoblocks. Audience powerchord for my DAC and Audioquest for Sonos. I'm happy with all the choices so far. I notice a much much lower noise floor. Looking forward to the Shunyata SR- Z1 outlets. Those heavy cables can sag from the sockets. Don't forget your outlets guys!
"After market power cords can lower system noise by reducing noise in the AC delivery"
if this is true, and I have every reason to believe it,then what will happen as they "break in"?
I am sitting here listening and typing this string.I have just installed these power cables and the more I listen, the more I am impressed.They have really improved the system significantly.I am now a believer.
It is really exciting and improvements always are, but if things get better still by break in, then I am a happy camper.
These power cables were very inexpensive, $37.00 each. Unfortunately the only components in my system that can use them are my Acoustat 2s. It makes me want to get my Hafler 220 modified to use a non-hardwired cable.I imagine this is doable. Most of my gear is Audio Alchemy and use out board power supplies.
I have had a hard time "believing" in the power cable has sound qualities argument. With that I just installed a pair of "massive" power cables I won off ebay for $37.00 a piece/plus shipping. These babies are massive and seem to be well constructed. They are called "Miova" brand. I plugged them into my Acoustats and I must say I can hear a definite improvement. The already good soundstage has gotten deeper and the whole system seems to be quieter.Which leads me to the question;what am I getting,better current to the speakers(cleaner)or is it all about the shielding which is keeping my interconnects (Prosilways) from interference?
The system seems like it has more headroom which makes me feel like there is more current and or cleaner current.
I am sure that there are folks on here that can explain it so I will sit back and listen.:-)
A few things to note if you're going to DIY your own cables, and I've found from practical experience that these tend to be fundamental and similar whether constructing an interconnect or a power cord:
- the type of metal matters (silver vs copper vs ???) - the guage matters - the geometry matters (twisted, braided, side by side, etc) - the insulating material matters - stranded vs solid vs combined matters - the connectors matter (and more expensive doesn't mean better here) - the method of termination matters (solder vs crimp vs both) - break-in is real, so first impressions may not be correct - measurements don't nearly tell the whole story, and can quite often be deceiving - the component you use it on matters (it may be different on one than another)
All this leads me to say that the possibilities are endless, and what may work best for you in one place may not work well at all for another. In the long run, after much time and money and lots of critical listening you will probably come out with something that is reasonably good. Better yet, you will come out with an appreciation of the art/science of the thing and some knowledge and experience you can share with others.
Not an easy road, but then again, you may luck out and develop something truly special. In any case you will surely understand why some cable manufacturers charge $500+ for their cables.
"Wondering if you have tried any of their speaker cables?" - No I haven't and I can't. Because of the room design, I must stay with flat speaker cables can design. Otherwise, with the rounded body ones, they would have to be long to go thru the front wall, pass the wall templates then another set of connectors and conductors to go to the speakers; too much possiblities when testing. With my flat ones like Nordost, they can just be simply slided thru the little gaps of the front entertainment. - I currently have the BlueJeanCable's Hdmi 1M long in my system; the Belden Series-1.It's great for its price catergory, but it's no comparasion when tested side by side with the Nordost SilverScree 2M long. The Nordost SilverScreen's body is very thick, very hard to "sneak it" around behind my system. After I tested them both intensively, both tips of the Nordost finally came loose on me. tip of the Nordost
It's good to hear you have had luck with the Blue Jeans ICs. I have been recommending this company's products for friends who are skeptical of wires that cost as much as their gear because the products appear to be well made and use quality materials. I am confident they will work well, if not expected to extract the last ounce of resolution, air or nuance from hi end systems.
For example, I purchased one of their HDMI cables for my father's HT system. It works great and was cheaper delivered than what they sell for at Radio Shack or the big box stores. Wondering if you have tried any of their speaker cables?
Interesting that Blue Jeans hasn't figured out that Power Cords really make a difference and entered that market. Their approach would be refreshing and have a niche I would think. The owner is a lawyer - maybe he doesn't want the liability of making products for high current application...
If you are leaning toward taipan i would email grant at shunyata.Get his opinion on which would be more approriate.He is very helpfull,i think the right cable on your cdp is the final icing (as well as conditioner).I never thought it would make as much differance since low current.Python on cdp made a huge differance.No more wondering if i try this cable.
ok nasaman, you got me there. i'm getting a little ahead of the game, but an opportunity arose to buy the audience speakers, so i jumped at it. right now, i still have the stock pc on the cdp. earlier on, knownothing suggested the taipan vx, and i'm presently leaning in that direction (especially since i've tossed the budget out the window), but acquiring another audience "e" is not out of the question.
now i also have some interesting reading with regards cable construction. i think it'll be helpful getting acquainted with some of the fundamentals.
but right now, i'm like that little electron whose been bitten by some energy and jumped headlong into that higher shell. pretty soon though, i'll emit enough light (or spend money, in this analogy), and dutifully fall back to my original state, where i'll be content.
"i now need interconnects, and would like to run some possibilities by you," - Neutron, first, I'm sorry I'm totally unfamiliar with the 3 name brands that youare listing above, but since I have great experience with the interconnect RCA LC-1 from BlueJeanCable.com. It's very affordable ($30/pair), give it a try. If some cables sound bright, others sound neutral or light, warm, or yet grainny, the LC-1 sounds very rich and punchy. I like it to go with my SF GP Home Series when listen to guitar, viloin, or percursion. However, it's doing just everage in vocals, classicals, and live music concert. It's very slightly lacking of the fineness and classy sound as the Transparent Reference's. I used to swap cables back and forth but I always ended up with the LC-1 in my electronics. Ince your case, I'm not sure how it'll intereact with your Krell, but it would probably matched nicely with your Cambridge CDP. Give it a try.
"...where do you get plans for assembly" - It's not that complicated. It could be anywhere.
"what raw materials and tools are needed" - As Knownothing stated, it could be just a simple screwdriver and a wire stripper /cutter. Ohm meter is highly recommended to verify continuity. However, I order my heat shrinks and snake /flex skin from PartsExpress.com; the Wattgate plugs from Ebay.
"and how do you decide on materials" - It's trial and error process. I just continue to build one after another and compare them with the name brand ones that I have. But even diff wires from Home Depot give diff sound from each others.
Neutron, if you like, PM me with your mailing address and your desired length, I will send you 1 of my DIY. It's yours to keep.
Neutron, boy, you have jumped off into the cable deep end! Not much to add on the ICs.
As for building power cables, I have rudimentary experience with wiring and electrical circuits, so in terms of construction of power cables have been trying to educate myself about materials and what factors are really important. In terms of assembly, there is nothing really tricky about it, but if you really screw up you can blow a fuse or some tubes at best, or start a fire in the worst case.
On that cheerier note, here are some sites where you can get some more information pon building your own PCs:
VH Audio: http://www.venhaus1.com/diymains.html and http://www.vhaudio.com/index.html
please, not wanting to distract from this fascinating diy discussion. i'd certainly like to hear more. where do you get plans for assembly, what raw materials and tools are needed, and how do you decide on materials. i would imagine that the materials are dictated by application.
i would also like to provide an update, and ask for more ideas...
hooked up the new powerchord "e" last night (utility --> conditioner), and got in about 2hrs listening. the taipan helix is conditioner --> integrated. boy was i disappointed. granted the powerchord is new out of the box and needs some time, but it seemed as if i took a giant step back in the direction of edgy narrow and shallow brightness. tried again this morning. now with about 5 hrs, the music is making a comeback. patience says to give it time, and i will. figured i'd test it a little though, so i put on leo kottke's "6 and 12 string guitar" to see what i'd get. well let me tell you, i can feel the wood character of the hollow body acoustic coming through on deeper notes. string plucking and strumming is coming through with definition, and the soundstage is opening up again. audience must burn in their cables prior to shipping, as i think this should be taking a lot longer. i know it still has a ways to go before plateauing.
so, i'm getting a bit out of control here, but changes need to be made, now that i've committed to the cable upgrade path. i bought some au24 speaker cables, and i'm very much looking forward to hearing them. i believe the choices have been spot on so far, and i will then happily get off that merry-go-round for a spell (knowing full well that there definitely must be many different stunning combinations available).
i now need interconnects, and would like to run some possibilities by you, in no particular order:
audience au24 (don't know if i would spring for the "e") purist aqueous anniversary kubala sosna fascination
consider this an official solicitation of your varied and welcomed opinions.
Did not directly compare because DIY cord is hard-wired to amp, i.e no IEC connector to swap. BUT in general, I would say that the DIY cord has a less sophisticated but very relaxed sound compared with any of the Shunyata cables. The music just flows now. If I was to try to rank performance, I would say I like the DIY "better" than the the Shunyata Venom, but don't think it can stand up to the Diamondback or higher cords. The Taipan Helix cords are clearly a much better choice with more air, better spatial cues and much tighter bass.
If I were to use better quality wire (say with Teflon dialectric and cryo treated) and connectors (say moderate to high level Furutech), I think its possible to make a rear-kicking cord for well under $200. I would call my current experiment (HA HA) with the amp cord a whim driven by how pleased I was with a recently purchased Shunyata cord for my CDP, and what I was able to find on the shelf at the local Home Depot. At under $18 and about 30 min. work, it was well worth the effort.
Thats grants interpretation,Copperhead,diamondback,ect.They arent hand made, up to the braided helix design?Helix design not being made by machine.This hobby is not a poormans hobby...this has made me do some things ive regreted.This is one i can live with though.
. Knownothing, did you have a chance to comapare both of the Shunyata's with your DIY P/C, any inside thoughts? . Digsmith, wow! I din't know the Helix lines weren't shielded. I gotta look'em up again.
with my limited experience, i'll certainly agree with knownothing and digsmithd. you can get the taipan helix nicely discounted from retailers, or from the cable company, or right here. i bought mine from agon for $350 (1.8m), and feel it's worth every penny (despite having only a few listening hours, so far). additionally, folks here love this stuff, resulting in supply that is well cared for, and often times fully broken in.
scheduled to get the audience powerchord e today. will post my findings sometime soon.
Nasman,if you can.. go up line to non sheilded helix line.As knownothing said you enjoy your system without wondering about the next level(off the merryground)at least a couple of months.These are hard times for me these days and just upgraded all to helix line.Can honestly say that was money well spent...imho.
I compared several Shunyata cables pretty carefully and the Diamondback and Taipan Helix VX are both very nice. The Taipan is incrementally better, and the better your gear, the greater the difference you will hear. At the prices you can pick up a used or discounted new Taipan Helix Alpha for amp, or VX for digital, I would strongly recommend trying it.
FWIW, I did not find the Venom to be anywhere near the capability of these other cords, at least for use with digital front ends.
Nice, very nice to see great result with the Sonus Faber. I was looking at the cheaper Shunyata Diamondback but your excitement got me pumped up a little. The comparasion with the Audience would be grateful.
That is great! Once I got the all the cords right, I kind of fell off the merry-go-round for a while and am just enjoying listening to music instead of the gear. Enjoy!!
wow!!! got my first power cord today. taipan helix alpha, used, great deal from audiogoner. a real pleasure to do business with, martay49, heartily recommended.
i'm now waiting on an audience powerchord "e".
back to the taipan...well not quite yet. with stock cord, everything was to bright, or voices blended into each other, bass was deep but not well defined, etc. now the taipan stuff. out of the box, and sitting between power conditioner and the krell integrated. haven't tried directly into con ed power, or from the wall to power conditioner yet. from the very first note of the 2nd movement of sibelius's 2nd symphony, a whole new world opened to me. soundstage becomes huge, in both breadth and depth. bass is now tight, amazingly well defined (imagine my shock, tympani's have character), and deep...viscerally deep. never thought that the sonus faber's were capable of moving so much air, the way the live performance demands it move. notes once misplaced, now have a place in space, they decay or dissipate the way my ears recognize as being right, i can tell that cymbals are made of metal, without sounding shrill...and there is a 1st violinist as well as a 2nd!!!...well, i think you get the message. i know you do, as you're the same folks who helped me find this road to ac lunacy. a lunacy that i now fully embrace.
i can't wait to get the powerchord "e", and continue with the experiment, and then on to ic's and sp cables.
i'm tapping my feet again. i'm not missing the tube stuff i traded for the solid state stuff. the new krell s-300i, at least to me, now sounds amazing...the reason i purchased it to begin with.
thank you, one and all, for your ideas, enthusiasm, and for helping this kindred spirit down the road to sonic bliss.
Way to go neutron...youll find best spot for it,i ended up going up to the python on cdp, taipans cond and amp.Would like to bump up to python on cond though.It does get better going up the chain (inho)
just bought my first power cord here a few minutes ago, the taipan helix. now i just need 2 more (wall -> power cond., integrated -> power cond., cdp -> power cond.), and an outlet.
now, some advice on where in the line the taipan should go (oe do i just try each point in the line), and what else should i get.
I dare say you can not post a "review" of power cords. Every one that I have tried sounds different using different components...in fact, I am using my favorite cords which are Furutech connections on Accrolink, and Oyeida ends on Accrolink. I have an all Ayre system, and tried the Furutech on the amp and also on the preamp. Furutech sounds different on each of these components as do Oyeida. It was easy to hear that the amp liked the Furutech and the oyeida less so, with the preamp and Universal player liking the Oyeida, with the Furutech less so. In my system, any of the Cardas cables sound dreadful..though other systems may prosper from them. Nordost, Purist, Kabula, etc all sound different...not as good in my system, but may very well sound great using other components...one never knows until you use them in your own system.
Tvad, i have used audience and flavor 4. i demoed the esp essence (liked them a lot but too stiff for what i needed). not in my system, but a friend and i a/b the kaplans (both copper and rhodium) with kubala fascinations on his system.
Neutron call Don from DCCA,I am familiar with your amp,I have heard that many times,ask Him for audition,so you can hear it for yourself,His pc flesh out music, and they are not bright.
You have narrowed it down to a few polular great cables(resale in mind?)Nothing works like real world experience in your own system..youll know it when you hear it.With that in mind considering everybody tastes in music differs,sometimes alot.
I'll 2nd that "knownothing". thoughful and insightful, thanks very much bob. the more i research, the more i'm inclined to move the kaplans up the ladder.
given the brightness of the krell integrated, anybody with thoughts regarding the kaplans vs shunyata taipan helix alpha? also, is it worth pursuing the electraglide sotu?
I've also changed over to the Kaplan Cables. Here's a review I did of a few different popular power cables and my impressions of each on both my amp and source components:
this really is the first time i'm tossing my hat into the arena. i haven't used any after market pc's yet, and it seems that, inevitably, i'll be expanding my budget (why does this always happen). i tried getting in on the "electraglide sotu" dutch auction tonight, but got priced out. i can't figure whether they're snake oil or the real thing, as i keep reading some stellar reviews, as well as more than a few sordid tails. anyway, these are my current thoughts. i have to admit that i do find them intriguing.
so, in particular order: shunyata taipan helix alpha, used, or on closeout. by the way, i wish i new as little as "knownothing", this would be alot easier. by the way, i have an inquiry into "the cable company", so thank you so much for that great lead. i trust that this cord won't add any color to the music...that's a joke, okay :)
audience powerchord
electraglide sotu. they seem to be out there
analysis oval 10
kaplans. they also sound intriguing, and they won't break the bank.
acoustic zen tsunami. though, i don't know where these should sit in the hierarchy.
the krell is a tad bright with the sonus faber's, though i suspect it would be a tad bright without the sonus faber's, and so, i would like something that may warm up the music with an offsetting tad.
again, thanks everybody for taking the time. the involved discourse is proving invaluable, if not a little overwhelming.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
