Which wood Grado

in my studied, experienced and sometimes sober opinion.....the Sonata REF2 is a fine cartridge...my Grado experience ( all positive btw ) only dates to 1978 so roberjerman has me aced out....

the Black is certainly more neutral and nuanced but in my system at the time did not have the midrange magic of the Grado...

for reference: Grado or Ortofon on Rega OEM 300 w Basis Silver cable on 1400 into Croft RS phono out to Audioquest sky into MX-110z .....blah....Apogee Stage, which are pretty revealing in the midrange....

have fun !!!!!

last_lemming: Across those frequency ranges you cited I think they compare well, with some slight differences, given that the styli are quite different profiles. What I like about the Ortofon is that, while the mids and upper/mid bass have the same overall sweetness of the Grado, the Black has quite a bit more texture simply because it pulls out the higher frequency overtones of timbre from instruments and vocals in those ranges. Also, in the deep bass, again, texture is a big part of note definition, along with fullness of character, and I always prefer hearing a balance of note details over a solely booming or somewhat veiled bass note. Don’t get me wrong, I greatly enjoy listening to the Sonata for some 70s recordings that need "warming up," say, Yes,’ Tales From Topographic Oceans or some of the original American Reprise pressings from that era, perhaps Young’s, After The Goldrush or Tull’s, Aqualung. With the Black, you hear it all and if accuracy and detail are important, then this would be my choice. If "warming up" less than stellar pressings is important to you, then the Sonata may be the ticket. It’s largely about the stylus profile; my hunch is that if the stylus on the Black were able to be installed on the Sonata, these cartridges would be much closer in sonic signature. Sadly, Grado doesn’t publish the specs of its styli and my guess is that they are no higher a profile than 0.3 X 0.7 mil. And what’s with that? I mean even Shure, Stanton and Pickering offered high profile styli. C’mon Grado; disclose already!
Hope this helps.
Steve

Dear @last_lemming : The @stevecham advise for the Ortofon 2mBlack is very  very good choice for you.

R.

I went from Grado Platinum, to Sonata, to the Reference Master 2, and I am quite satisfied; Grado is called the poor mans Koetsu for a reason.

Bpoletti, what a stupid ass and ignorant post.

That's MY studied and experienced opinion.

Never Grado again. Never.

maybe you have just been unlucky with this brand, for compatibility between tonearm / cartridge / phono and I also add cable.

I had a Sonata.  That's why I now use a Lyra Clavis DC (rebuilt by Soundsmith) and keep an AT OC9/II as a spare.  Never Grado again.  Never.  Will sell my vinyl collection before I stoop down that low.  

But that's only my studied and experienced opinion.  Your naive opinion may differ.  

Stevecham,

how do those two carts you mention compare in the midrange and mid bass. The acoustics in my room are such that I lose a bit of that range.   Unfortunately my wife doesn't care, so no acoustic fixes. 

Sounds like the sonata is the one you are looking for.  Comes in high and low output.  I like the low output with a sut.  The sonata has real meat on it bones.  The mid range is top tier.  Maybe the best in the business.  On the whole a very musical enjoyable cart.

Enjoy the ride
Tom

last_lemming: I too have an SL1200GR and Thiel 2.4s and I have a Grado Sonata that sounds pretty good through the rig (Manley amplification). I also have an Ortofon Black that is priced similarly and I think it is a superior cartridge compared to the Sonata. The Black has a shibata stylus and retrieves far more high frequencies than does the Sonata. The mat I use is Herbie’s Way Excellent - 4 mm http://herbiesaudiolab.net/ttmat.htm

Thank you chakster for your advice on mats! I am going to try my MIJ magnesium mat on my PLX1000 in place of rubber!

+1 yogiboy! The Sonatas are a good choice! My experience with Grados goes back to 1976 (FTE +). Always a top contender for cost/performance!

Can I get that with the $600 or $700 budget in the Wood line and which one would be the best. MM or MC.

All Grado cartridges are MI, not an MC:

"Although we were granted our patents for the stereo moving coil cartridge in 1959 we ceased manufacturing moving coil cartridges a few years later. We discovered that the moving coil design has an inherent issue that causes a high frequency emphasis which cannot be corrected through any type of engineering. This encouraged Grado Labs into patenting a platform of moving iron phono cartridges. The Moving iron design eliminated all of the known issues of the moving coils."

My favorite Grado is Signature XTZ model, made by Joe Grado in the 80s. Within your budget you’d better look for some top vintage MM or MI for your tonearm. Victor X-1II or X-1IIe are amazing just to name a few.

If you looking for MC then Fidelity-Research PMC-3 would be the best with heavy headshell and sub weight for your tonearm. Very nice cartridge, pretty rare. You can find more in Fidelity-Research thread.

Another MC with relatively high compliance would be Dynavector DV23RS MR (with Ruby cantilever and Micro Ridge tip). You can find more in Dynavector thread.

P.S. If you want ONLY brand new cartridge then you can buy Garrott P77i or higher model and report back how do you like them, some of us are happy with old version. They are all MM. Find more: https://garrottbrothers.com/ Replacement styli are available everyday and it’s much better than sending cart to re-tip (in case with MC).

My advice for your 1200GR:
Remove rubber mat and add Micro Seiki CU-180 gunmental mat or SAEC SS-300 alloy mat. 

The Grado Sonata V2 reference or statement. The difference between them is the output. Both would be a good match with the tonearm on the 1200GR. BTW, The Needle Doctor has a return policy if you don't like them!
https://www.needledoctor.com/analog/analog-components/Phono-Cartridges/brand/Grado-Labs

In my opinion....

You're better off getting an Otello Soundsmith cart.  Much better choice and it fits your budget.  And when you like the way it performs, it only costs $100 or so to rebuild to new.  And if you want "more" during the rebuild, maybe Soundsmith just might provide a better cantilever and / or stylus for a small increase in rebuild price.  If you ask nice.