And the guys with their Thorens say the same thing. And the guys with their Technics SP10. And with their Garrards. The modern tables ALL missed the boat. Yet they come over to a true, modern state of the art table in a cost no object system and walk away shaking their heads.
I could say all I want that my 67 Camaro will take a new Corvette on a twisty road. Or my Boss 302 will take a Viper. But wishing and dreaming does not make it so. Likewise, this thread is full of wishing and dreaming.
Not all super expensive current turntables are great. Many are jokes. Well, most are jokes at the crazy price they ask. But some current great ones really are great, and none of the idlers or belt/idlers are going to touch the very best. True, lots of jokers are making current turntables. Know-nothing experimenters. Audio is unfortunately more full of these guys than ever. They proliferate in the turntable, tonearm, cable, and speaker markets. But, again, the few really good modern turntables are not going to be bettered by the old stuff. |
Thuchan, I'm sure what you said is all true as it is with every turntable. But that was not a qualification in your initial post. |
Dear Lohanimal,
you're right with your description of our learning path. I wouldn't say I have seen (and listened to) all the "big tables" but many have been in my listening room and all had some positive sides and negative aspects. BTW I do love some other fine tables and still keep them but the EMT is the greatist artist among them. Yes, it is timing, focus and much more the ability to transport the dynamics. I don't mean the typical pressure some idlers are very typical of and do impress more by dynamics than by musicality. It is the combination of both you may reach whith a well balanced machine like the EMT 927. |
Dear Hevac1,
of course it is all to our personal preferences. It also depends in which condition you have listened to the 927. I know from friends who had first contcat with the EMT when it was discovered in the garage or picked up in a studio, long time forgotten in a dark corner. For this old idler you need very good service, on the wheel, the bearing oil, the bearing itself, the brake etc. Which plate did you use, the glass platter from Dusch? which tonearm if you can remember? Did you have any shock absorbing frame? |
Dear Lewm,
the R 80 is the prototype of the EMT 927. about 60 units were built in the 50ies. They differ in their various configurations. EMT decided later to use the inbuilt phono pre for the 927 and also used a light and a brake etc. All this comes not with the R 80. In this way the R 80 is a very puristic 927.
Agree with you on the Leicas despite I am using the Canon 1Ds and the Sony Nex7, too. |
This is a quite amusing thread. We all place components into our system and think it is better than the last. II get the impression that the 927 is a great sounding machine, and is exceptional at being bold and musical. It could just be the fact that to your ears, nothing else would float your boat in the same way. We all have hearing that is sensitive to specific aspects of sound - ie. imaging, detail, timing or transparency. I was into imaging and detail, but as time goes by it is timing. |
Dear Lewm,
the R 80 is the prototype of the EMT 927. about 60 units were built in the 50ies. They differ in their various configurations. EMT decided later to use the inbuilt phono pre for the 927 and also used a light and a brake etc. All this comes not with the R 80. In this way the R 80 is a very puristic 927.
Agree with you on the Leicas despite I am using the Canon 1Ds and the Sony Nex7, too. I think the M6 is not such a bad design :-) |
Hi Thuchan,
You mention the R80, but I am not familiar with that model. Is it essentially an EMT 927 without built-on tonearm and phono stage? Based on what you say, you are the foremost expert on the sound of the 927/R80 and the best person to say it is the best turntable.
IMO, the Leica M3 is the most perfect camera ever made. Everything that came after it is a copy of its basic features but with less quality. I've got three lenses for mine, and I still use it on the odd occasion. I also bought a Sony NEX7, so I could use the Leica M lenses for digital photos. I am not familiar with that particular book, but I will look for it. Thanks. |
Dear Lewm,
do understand! You should come to Munich one day to hear the EMT R 80 with the EMT JPA-66. I am running separate phono stages with the EMT R 80. The R-80 has no inbuilt phono pre which is appropriate to my system requirements. I have also heard the inbuild tube pre with an EMT 927 which sounded really good, too.
Yes I compared my tables with the same arm and the same phono stage. This is what I am doing permanently and I love it while others may believe in a one table/phono pre solution.
Your Leica is a beautiful instrument, now you should consider going for a IIId :-) BTW do you know the book of Alessandro Pasi - Leica, Witness to a century, revised edition. big recommendation! |
Dear Thuchan, I certainly did not mean to doubt your veracity. I was just remarking on how the wording of your original question had a profound effect on the subsequent discussion. Gadget-lover that I am, I would dearly love to see and hear an EMT927 in real life; the quality of its construction is evident merely from photos. (Which is why I would never be without a Leica M3, antique though it may be.) Placing the phono stage right at the base of the tonearm is also ideal; I am thinking of how that could be done with separates in my own system. And I can believe that the EMT tube phono stage may be excellent. (I think you also stipulated that the tube version is a "must".) However, I have trouble believing that the solid state EMT phono stages are still state of the art. If one is auditioning the EMT927 as an entity cum EMT phono stage, then of course the phono stage is going to have a major effect on one's overall opinion, as also for the tonearm(s). The only real valid comparison would be EMT turntable vs other turntable, using same tonearm/cartridge/phono stage/etc. Have you ever done that? |
Yes to my ears, the system I had and the music I myself listened to at the time the Micro BL-91 sounded better.
I now own a Basis Debut and feel it sounds better than the EMT. The music I listen to now has changed some what but what I like in a system has not.
If we all did not hear differences in sound this would not be a hobby. We would ALL be listening to CD's and digital music because that is what some felt was the BEST at the time and analog would be dead. That was not a Fact either was it. |
Dear Lewn,
I may tell you why so many accepted the proposition. Because I believe many have heard about the capabilities of the EMT 927. Among serious audiophiles there is no doubt that the EMT 927 /R 80 is one of the great designs in turntable history as are e.g. the big Micros
To be honest I couldn' t really believe it until I convinced myself of the sound qualties of this machine.
Indeed the entry level is a huge one, I mean pricewise and finding a well preserved and perfectly running unit. Whenever you have a chance pls. do listen to the EMT. You will beginn to understand... |
Dear Raul,
I am fascinated by you thoughts, "why can't it be?"
Because when you have the MS BL-91 and the EMT 927 in very good conditions (no cheap buys, no unserved units) and you compare these two tables under the same condition in a good system you will hear it. If not, oh boy... |
Dear Lew, 'The wording of the proposition' is as important in other domains then the legal one. BTW the difference between the attorney can be reduced to your proposition about 'the' propositions in general.
Regards, |
The wording of the proposition is good legal strategy, like "When did you stop beating your wife?" It presupposes a condition (no other turntable can beat the EMT 927) for which we have no evidence except Thuchan's implicit testimony. And it is rather surprising how many of us accepted the proposition as a starting point for discussion. |
Deus ex machina= distortions.
Regards and enjoy (endless) testing, |
Dear Thuchan: Why could not be? after all the Hevac1 opinion is not the first one in the thread where the 927 was beated.
Do you think the 927 is a perfect TT?, no way because till today does not exist perfect TTs.
Maybe things are that your system distoritons match very well withb the 927 or that could hide the 927 " failures "/non-perfect performance.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
Hevac1.
I know the Micro BL-91 very well. You are not seriously believing what you assessed here in comparison with the EMT 927, or are you? |
I listened to this table back in the day and purchased a Micro Seiki BL-91 over it. The Micro have better bottom end and detail than the EMT 927. |
Dev, the use of the SP Ultra Five on the BMC Arcadias is a problem. The threaded insert into the shafts in the bottom of the speakers are from within the speaker and thus can be forced out by a threaded rod from below. The speakers come with spikes that have a threaded washer that keeps the thread being forced out. Fortunately the converter from 1/4 20 to M8 was insufficiently long to force the threads out.
Long story but my SP Ultra Fives are flush against the bottom of the speakers, which I know is not the best way to have them. There really is no alternative with these speakers.
Presently I have the Bergmann Sindre turntable and sought to get them to try the SP Ultra Fives but being Danish they will not use anything American made. However, the table is far superior on the SP Component Stand with four Ultra Fives mounted on the Component Stand, shockingly so.
I will use the same for the Lenco Reference. I have heard the Lenco Classic, the earlier Nantais Lenco mod versus two other mods and the Nantais was clearly better. I should also say that Jean's unit is cheaper. |
Ct0517, just comparing the similarities not the differences :-)
Tbg, I am using Stillpoints as feet under my Copulare racks. what a diffence! I wouldn't use the original feet.
Halcro, agree with structural airborne issues. You may completely solve this problem by anchoring the racks with the concrete floor. In my case I used the Stillpoints under the racks. This improved a lot. Nevertheless you need to implement anti-vibration issues for the drive, motors, tonearm stands etc.
It might be also very crucial putting the speakers and subs far away from electronics and analog units. |
Tbg, interesting!
you said;
I have a Nantais Lenco Reference on order. Some have said that other Lenco updates are perhaps better, but I doubt it.
Congrats on your new pce but the other comment made above how would you know this if you haven't actually owned from both sources and compared.
SP Ultra 5's;
I also have 4 under each of my speakers and to date are my preference and have heard numerous others trying under their tables with great success, I know of one manufacture also utilizing such as a standard when selling his "Steve D" Kodo The Beat table latest version.
With your speakers are you utilizing and connecting with the threaded nipples, do you have them snugged right up tight or do you have them backed off a few turns. |
Ironically, on my old thread, "Halcyonics under my tt. Wow" a guy just today tells of his use of SP Ultras on a Halcyonics. |
Peterayer, I compared the SP Rack not the later Ultra SS and Ultra Five feet. The Rack did use the new "technology" of StillPoint but had the liability, since removed, of having acrylic shelves. Again, however I could put everything on the SP Rack but only two components on Halcyonics. The top end was cleaner and quicker and I had, if I recall correctly, more sense of a sound stage.
Only in the case of my amplifier did I do a comparison in this case with the StillPoints component stand with the "technology" in its feet alone under the amp versus the Halcyonics on the Acapella Fondato Silenzio base with their little pucks between the base and the Halcyonics. In this case I thought the SP Component Stand had clearly better base.
The comparison under the turntable was with both on a Reference Mana stand. The Mana stands have points to the floor and below each shelf. It had been my plan to put the turntable on the StillPoints Rack, but I so quickly filled up the six shelves, that I never tried that.
With the turntable I don't remember hearing much difference with my Shindo turntable and as I said the guy who bought the Shindo also bought the Halcyonic on which it was placed.
Overall, I should stress that I only had two Halcyonics units and was able to put everything on either the SP Rack or SP Component Stands. The StillPoints sound had quicker attack and cleaner top end, where the Halcyonic did nothing.
I should also note that since that time, StillPoints technology has added improved technology in the Rack, in the new Ultra feet, and record puck. Overall, this has revealed more detail giving a very nice sound stage precision in knowing where the performers are.
Mike, by no means was the Halcyonic optimized. My listening room is on the second floor. Both Halcyonics units were used on Mana stands as I explained above. |
Norm; a followup to Peterayer's question....
when you did (or if you did) compare the Halcyonics to the Stillpoints under the turntable, was the Halcyonics on a totally grounded rack with no de-coupling? in other words, was the Halcyonics optimized? was the floor beneath the rack concrete with the rack spiked into it?
thanks, |
Tbg, Could you please describe the sonic difference between the Halcyonics and the StillPoints? Did you ever try the same turntable on both devices? Thanks. |
Peterayer, I had two Halcyonics unit with one under the turntable and one under the amp most of the time. I had thought to buy more Halcyonics but the price got outrageous. Really it was the StillPoints Rack that came along first. When I put everything on the SP Rack it was better than my previous sound. I longed for the possibility to have all Halcyonics but could not afford that. Ultimately the guy who bought my Shindo turntable wanted the Halcyonic unit so I sold both. The second Halcyonic went shortly thereafter.
I did try various feet between the Halcyonic and the Shindo but they did little.
I think Paul is wrong about where the greatest benefits of the SP Ultra SSs or Ultra Fives are. On my amps SP Ultra Five on SP Component stands are just outstanding. Once I got rid of the acrylic shelves on the SP Rack, the Ultra SSs and Ultra Minis are also outstanding. The SP Ultra Fives are outstanding under speakers, but four are needed, not just three. In all cases four are better than three, but you have to keep all four in contact with the component.
Most vertical vibration is turned into horizontal vibration which can nowhere and thus is converted into heat.
No my present turntable is a Bergmann Sindre with no real suspension. It is on SP Ultra Fives which are also mounted on a SP Component stand. Initially, I am just going to put the Nantais Lenco Reference where the Bergman is now. The hundred pound weight of the Reference will mean something other than the Mana Stands glass shelf. |
Tbg, That is interesting that you replaced the Halcyonics with the StillPoints. Before doing so, did you try the StillPoints between the turntable and the Halcyonics? Could you please describe how the sound changed?
I met the designer of the StillPoints last weekend at the NYC Audio Show. He indeed explained to my friend and me that the SP are designed to drain internal vibrations down from the component as well as isolate it from structural born vibrations coming from below the component. He also explained to us that his products make the most difference when placed under speakers, then electronics and finally under source components like turntables.
Have you tried placing some StillPoints on the plinth of your turntable, assuming there is room? |
Dear Thuchan, I remember the most of your pictures about the building of your dedicated listening, uh, space. I don't however rememer to have seen any 'steel reinvorced slabs' anywhere while non of your components is 'hanged' on the walls. My apartment is on the 11e floor so if there were no 'steel reinvorced slabs' under my foot or my gear I would be no more among us. Thanks Henry for your explanation why I am still a live. I wrongly thought that Lew or Fleib would explain this 'wonder' to me considering the fact that I smoke longer than 50 years. As some old chess master stated: 'the human understanding is limited but human stupidity is without bondaries'.
Regards, |
Halcro, I think you are entirely right about structural borne vibrations but turntables have many equally difficult problems all of which rob the music of its magic.
About two years ago I discovered the new StillPoints isolation feet, component stands, and racks. They are intended to absorb the internal vibrations as well as the structural vibrations. They have replace the Halcyonic active isolation platforms that I had used, especially under my turntables. But there are also: speed accuracy, resistance to the impact of the music on the speed, slap echo of ribbons used to drive tables, pulse of ac motors, vibrations through the bearing, etc. Gradually, I have come to the conclusion that the idler wheel turntable, especially the Lenco, have the greatest realism, so I am moving that way.
I think many are selling vinyl short, but no totally optimizing their turntable, arm, cartridges. My new table will also allow me to have two tonearms with one having a mono cartridge. Long ago I realized that while I liked the soundstage of most stereo records, monos often are the most real. |
Tonywinsc,
You flatter me :-)
I don't believe that I have more experience than many folk here?
What I do have through my architectural profession......is a working knowledge of structural engineering, building materials, construction techniques and building acoustics.
I am convinced that the fundamental enemy of the 'turntable system'.....is Structure-Bourne Feedback.
Many people assume that Air-Bourne Feedback is the issue as they perceive an increase in feedback when they increase the volume from the speakers.....whereas the increased volume is merely highlighting the Structure-Bourne feedback.
Every suspended timber-framed floor is wracked with Structure-Bourne feedback due to structural deflections....and surprisingly......every suspended reinforced concrete slab is also wracked with similar Structure-Bourne Feedback due to the same structural deflections.
Only a steel reinforced concrete slab on the ground can be relatively free of this form of feedback.
The stresses caused by these structural deflections result in 'movement' and continuous low-frequency energy within the floor system.
All the expensive stands, isolation platforms and turntable suspension systems are designed primarily to isolate the plinth and platter from this Structure-Bourne Feedback but very few are 100% effective because of the severe low-frequency of the feedback and because of the movements induced.
Once you have heard a turntable system.....any turntable system......totally free of this Structure-Bourne Feedback......you will realise the singular importance of this principle.
You will also notice when this is achieved.....that tonearms and cartridges are generally liberated to perform their tasks as designed?
So I agree with you.......the type of drive system implemented and the absolute accuracy of speed maintenance is not as significant IMHO?
|
Thuchan
Verdier = Micro Seiki ???? Thuchan - do the Micro Seiki designs have braking built into the platter design to deal with the behavior of a vinyl record - like the Verdier Platine ? Cheers |
Thanks Thuchan for the description. Just to add more information, J.C Verdier is now making an even bigger TT called the Verdier Magnum. It is massive and is made to order only. You can read about it here:
http://www.jcverdier.com/ADSL/Platine_Magnum.html |
Dear 57s4me: IMHO the first and main factor/characteristic/target on analog is: that the stylus tip ( at microscopic level. ) be always in touch with the grooves and I mean always with out any tiny deviation from there and this depends mainly in the whole cartridge design and not on the TT quality or even in the tonearm one.
Cartridge tracking habilities depends mainly on the cartridge it self, I'm not saying that we don't need at least a decent tonearm design because we need it but not at the level everyone could think.
I tested hundred of cartridges ( from LOMC to MM/MI ones. Vintage and today ones. ) in several different tonearms with different effective mass and effective length and build materials and my first hand experiences tell me that if the cartridge has high tracking habilities it will showed always it does not matters that even the resonance frequency with the tonearm be way out of the ideal range, example a heavy mass tonearm with a high compliance/low weight cartridge.
It is so " curious " ( I mean curious because is unknow for me the precise whys. ) that the same cartridge body on a MM cartridge when I tested with three different stylus original replacements where the only change was the stylus tip shape and even that shares the same whole design on suspension and the like there are differences on each one tracking habilities and sound quality level.
I agree with you that if you already losed groove information you just can't recovery and then the main target down there is to recovery all the recorded information in the grooves and this can do it " only " by the cartridge and from here all what you want: from TT mat to tonearm board passing for different steps to damp everywhere the analog rig stopping that feedback Tonywinsc and you touched.
IMHO a massive TT design as could be the 927 not warranty that non-feedback because we have to remember that a massive item don't stop per se that feedback but even could be worst and easyly perceived by that extremely sensitive " microphone " name it cartridge. The only way to be sure any TT design ( including the 927. ) is doing its job on the subject is making measuring taking in count the lowest " level " any cartridge can be disturbed. With out those measurements real tests all what we have to say on the whole subject is subjective and its validity is valid around those " ears " and the accuracy and distortion level of the audio system.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
The reality is once again that there is no consensus on anything in audio. I have a Nantais Lenco Reference on order and will use it with Ikeda 407 tone arm and 9TT cartridge. I have found Jean not pompous but rather justifiably proud of his achievement in elevating greatly the Lenco. Some have said that other Lenco updates are perhaps better, but I doubt it. |
I must amend what I wrote about the Lenco vs 927 "shootout". Jean had nothing to do with it and candidly admitted that he was not even present. I think Jean had compared one of his creations to some other model of EMT, maybe a 930. (I found this information in an old thread on EMT, wherein Jean contributed.) Sorry, Jean, if you're out there. |
Lewm Lewm - There was not much in the way of objectivity That is why I put a qualifier in my post. Recognizing the links are from JNs site here ...... My post was - imo - relevant thread information based on the OP. I like to see public chat threads that are informative, entertaining, and generate good debate. IMO - No one is going to buy anyone of these tables based on what is said here. Not without listening to them first - unless they are a collector, or it represents chump change for them and they will just resell it if it doesnt work out. just my opinion. Cheers |
Ct, I have to agree with Bydlo. I read that "review" back when Jean published it on his lengthy Audiogon thread. There was not much in the way of objectivity. Good as Jean's Lenco turntables are, it is a stretch to say his comparison to the EMT 927 proves anything. At this juncture, I am not sure I would even agree that Jean makes the best Lenco, let alone the best idler in the world. But don't misconstrue this as dismissal of the Nantais Lenco's. They are excellent. I have owned one of his and now own one of my own concocting that uses a slate plinth, Reinder PTP, aftermarket massive bearing, treated platter. The idler has a certain unique quality that does indeed make me wonder about the 927, from a distance. |
Not modern, but superior. |
Tonywinsc, I've been following the thread with great interest, and I have to agree with your assessment wholeheartedly.
One would think there comes a point where the drive mechanism might sink into unimportance; after a certain level of (to use your term) blackness has been reached, then there is no significant gain to be made from larger motors or more massive platters etc.
This question of reflections (again to use your term) is the one that fascinates me. I recently had some (for me) shocking experiences with an arm of such little mass and friction - arguably one that could not have been much improved in these ways - that I am forced to question the whole subject of turntable and arm design.
Given the dynamic range of vinyl, could it be that the very lowest level of information retrieval is what we are seeking, and it is this ultra low level information that has the most effect on staging and holographic imaging? My guess is that this micro-information is the first casualty in losses due to 'reflections' at the arm/cartridge interface.
In fact, if I were to speculate wildly I would argue that almost all turntable design starts with an admission of a battle lost: since arms, by current thinking, have to have length and mass then we are already losing micro-information due to reflections. The conventional answer is to make motors and platters more massive. But, once the information has been lost or just muddied there is no way to bring it back. Fighting the wrong battle?
Ivor Tiefenbrun of Linn had a theory: his argument was that if you make the platter and bearing correctly, then after you get the arm correct it doesn't matter hugely what cartridge you use. Was he only partially correct? There are a large number of beautifully made tables and cartridges out there, and I think that we've reached a sort of a null in this matter: choosing a cartridge can be a simple as choosing a loudspeaker, in theory. It might simply be the interface between the arm and stylus that makes the all-important difference.
Could it be this that Thuchan is responding to? |
I've heard a number of idler drive tables-927, 301, Thorens, etc. and they do share an appealing quality--a bold, dynamic, prick-up-your-ears quality. I have also heard a belt drive table that had that same kind of sound--the monster Audionote table with three 2 hp motors. A common element seems to be pretty high torque motors.
Not having heard many tables in side-by-side comparisons, I could not even begin to speculate on "best." Even if one heard direct comparisons, one could only pick a personal favorite for that particular system. The very notion of a universal "best" is not worth debating.
There a plenty of great sounding vinyl systems that I've heard built around a vastly different set of tables--Audionote, Garrard, Gabriel, Verdier, Basis, Kuzma, to name just a few.
In my own system, I enjoy a Basis Debut with vacuum clamp and motor control. I have no idea how it compares with other tables in my system because I don't switch tables at all (WAY too much trouble)--I just know that I like the sound. |
Always a lot of discussion about speed and speed control. I'm no expert and do not claim to be an authority here. I'm just not convinced that the differences in how these turntables sound is due largely to speed control. I believe that the majority of our hifi turntables have speed and speed control nailed down very well. The key is having the right tools to accurately dial in the correct speed, but our tt's have the motors and control circuits to hold speed as required. We have discussed this in other forums. Most tables are capable to hold speed within +/-0.05%. This is as good as the master reel to reel tapes that the records were made from.
I believe the majority of the sound differences can be attributed to both isolation of the record and stylus and the dampening or sinking of the vibrations generated by the stylus (internal born) as well as external vibrations (feed back from the speaker output). The platter must be acoustically black. ie. no response to the stylus vibrations can be allowed to be fed back to the cartridge. The platter bearing, tonearm bearing and tonearm mount must be acoustically black. Any reflections back to the cartridge is going to muddy the sound, smear images and reduce detail. Looking at pictures of the EMT turntable convinces me that its massive chassis, platter and bearing probably makes this tt incomparable among tt's to asorbing vibrations and eliminating reflections back to the cartridge.
I don't think drive type matters that much either as long as vibrations are isolated and absorbed. Some of the advatages of rim drive might simply be the rim pulley sinking vibrations from the platter. Belts have their own way of isolating vibrations. I think DD is the biggest challenge for isolation and sinking of vibrations. These are just opinions on my part and I would like Halcro and Thucan to weigh in with their much more vast experience. |
Pani,
I have not heard all EMTs but a Verdier. A good friend of mine was able comparing the EMTs. He had heard 930 vs 927 same room same system, etc....the 930 does not have the solid base presence of the 927 and on complex musical passages (a lot of instruments dynamic etc...) the 930 gets confused, dynamics of the 927 shine vs the 930.
EMT 950 = yes heard but perhaps the torque and power of drive is better than the 927 (that is what EMT said???), the problem is that the 950 is fully integrated with onboard solid state phono stage. I think the 950 is great if only it was not all solid state it would be in my room...
Verdier = Micro Seiki, maybe Verdier a bit better as motor is stronger but then the string transmission is still the same and needs to be carefully implemented or improved.
This is why I always recommend using different PS and steering devices for the big Micros.
There are two many people asking the same question....and there is only one way you can answer it....try yourself!
Good Halcro!
If you cannot do that then just live happy with what you have got.
Also too many of us never mention records, and that is the most important part of it all.
Now if the idea is to play poorly recorded or post 70's thin vinyl our whole debate is pointless.
I like to add this contradicting myself a little but maybe it is helpful.
BTW I posted these words two days ago, told it Audiogon and do it again now. |
|
are you familiar with the Jean Nantais Lenco L75 - EMT927 Haha! The guy sounds like a typical megalomaniac. He claims his Lencos outerformed this ot that TT without any concrete evidence: in what areas and how exactly outperformed, what was the rest of the system, what was the material played, how many listeners and with what background, etc etc. Without such a precise data, inevitable if one challenges a reference, this is just a pure megalomany |
Ct0517, It is the Reference which I'm getting. I had heard about this, but had not seen a citation of it. |
Hi Thuchan are you familiar with the Jean Nantais Lenco L75 - EMT927 shootout that took place in Athens, Greece ? EMT 927 Recognizing the links are from JNs site here ...... In your opinion was this a fair shootout ? Cheers |
1. How does the 927 compared to 930 which is also an Idler drive ? Or for that matter how is the 950 in comparison ? Is there big gap between 927 and all other EMTs ?
Pani, owing a 930, I've been asking myself the same question. Here is +/- only concrete info I could get on the subject: http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=11338.msg175215#msg175215 |
Thuchan, I have only once heard an EMT927 and even that was with no comparison to anything else. I love vinyl but find it very inconvenient also. I am soon to get an idler wheel Lenco based tt.
I doubt if the EMT927 has never been surpassed, but hey that is not the issue. I think it could be built today except for the fact that the price would be much greater and perhaps even prohibitive. I know full well that there are better bearings, plinth materials, vibration isolation, platter materials, phono stage designs and parts, etc. What would a current version of the EMT with use of all this new information sound like?
I also know of the Seiko Epson turntable by Mr. Teragaki Takeshi and how revered and sought after it is. Is it the equal of the EMT.
I'm sure you enjoy your EMT 927. I have once turndown one and would not change my mind were I offered another today. |
Thank you Thuchan,
Very well explained......
Now......if only I can hear one myself?
Regards
Henry |
