My Ohm Sound Cylinders function well as a po
Woofer-Assisted Wide Band
In the old days of dynamic speaker drivers everything was done with a single driver. Now multi-way speakers with multiple drivers covering different ranges are the most common. With this of course come some issues, and all sorts of ways to fix them.
But even today in the 21st century there are some interesting varietals of single-driver speakers attempting to claim a spot on the high-end though. Some use little paper "whizzer" cones and transmission lines. Some use mechanical crossovers (no caps). Others like Kef and Thiel attempt to solve some of the issues by using a coaxial arrangement.
One of the cool ideas I have seen lately is "woofer assisted wide-band." The idea is that the main speaker is a single driver that covers from around 400 Hz on up. This keeps the crossover well out of the midrange and treble. An additional woofer is used to cover the lower octaves.
What about you? Are you a firm believer that multi-way speakers are the wrong way to go?
But even today in the 21st century there are some interesting varietals of single-driver speakers attempting to claim a spot on the high-end though. Some use little paper "whizzer" cones and transmission lines. Some use mechanical crossovers (no caps). Others like Kef and Thiel attempt to solve some of the issues by using a coaxial arrangement.
One of the cool ideas I have seen lately is "woofer assisted wide-band." The idea is that the main speaker is a single driver that covers from around 400 Hz on up. This keeps the crossover well out of the midrange and treble. An additional woofer is used to cover the lower octaves.
What about you? Are you a firm believer that multi-way speakers are the wrong way to go?
18 responses Add your response
My Ohm Sound Cylinders function well from 30 hz to 8k hz with a single 8 inch driver but need help in the last octave by using a pair of dome tweeters. They do sound stunningly coherent with this arrangement and come the closest to the "full range driver" principle. Second choice would be the Carver Amazing speaker - 4 12 inch woofers operating up to 150 hz and then a 48 inch ribbon out to 20k. They sounded remarkablely smooth and clear! |
In the old days of dynamic speaker drivers everything was done with a single driver. Now multi-way speakers with multiple drivers covering different ranges are the most common. With this of course come some issues, and all sorts of ways to fix them. But even today in the 21st century there are some interesting varietals of single-driver speakers attempting to claim a spot on the high-end though. Some use little paper "whizzer" cones and transmission lines. Some use mechanical crossovers (no caps). Others like Kef and Thiel attempt to solve some of the issues by using a coaxial arrangement. One of the cool ideas I have seen lately is "woofer assisted wide-band." The idea is that the main speaker is a single driver that covers from around 400 Hz on up. This keeps the crossover well out of the midrange and treble. An additional woofer is used to cover the lower octaves. What about you? Are you a firm believer that multi-way speakers are the wrong way to go? erik_squires04-04-2018 12:04a ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The truth is the 2/3 way xover things , hijacked the REAL TRUE speaker designs,,~~single source/wide band/high sens~~~. After I heard a wide band,,,I dumped the worlds best tweeter, The Millennium, for a wide band, and then keeping the Seas W18E001;’s as padded bass, with a MISERABLE 87 db sens. Its amazing,a mystery, a joke, a scam, a fraud That folks keep pursuing the 2/3 way designs /xovers. As IF, wide bands do not even exist.. But obviously its a psyche issue, humans are known as creatures of habit, and as the old saying goes, ~~Old dogs cant learn new tricks. For me there is only 1 speaker for real true msic,,,that is wide band, and thats it. I would never even think, consider, ponder, neither tempted to go back to midrange via a 2/3 way xover low sens driver design. Not even Troels best of, would even slightly tempt me. I look at Troels beautiful speakers as ~~dinasaurs.. Even might I say,~~ridiculous. I actually despise , cant stand, even HATE all Wilsons, Vandersteens, Thats entire A=Z bunch of 2/3 ways. YUCKKKKK You can have them. |
I've racked my brains past 2 years, spent $$$$$$$ upgrading the Thors. Then I placed a wide band next to the Thors,, hahahaha Dome tweets are ___________ Fill in the bland Next to a true hifi wide band, no dome tweet in the universe can stand up to a high quality wide band. And as for Scanspaek, /seas midwoofers Once again A true hifi wide band blows every mid woofer away. woofers are only good for 30hz-300hz, thats it I will be double stacking 2 sets of wide bands Video comming. My speakers will blow away any Wilson. Even their $1million dollar model. |
@erik_squires i use assistant woofer and also assistant supertweeter in all my models bacheaudio to help wide band driver, Adding subwoofer is not help to cover 150 -350 hz. All wide diver and some woofers also got poor ability to reproduce this freg, I dont understand why so many audiophile like full range drivers , No punch, Thin sound |
mijostyn4,935 posts08-20-2021 12:47pmMiddle C is 256 Hz. 400 Hz is smack in the middle of the midrange. What you describe is a two way speaker. The only viable full range speaker that just needs a subwoofer is an ESL. Mozartfan, I am left speachless. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We could discuss this subject for,,well til the end of time.\ I am aware the commiment audiophiles possess (are possessed) by the woofer/midrange/tweeter,,or really if you look at Troels designs, most are midwoofers + tweeter. This concept will not work for my classical music. I need rich, complex, details, with a sensitivity greater than 91db IMHO woofers should be dedicated to voice the 30hz-say,,,200 hz range, well lets go 300hz. Thats it. I am not looking for a ~~midrange~ + woofer combination. The db sens is too low to do justice to the 300hz-say, 2khz range. at 87db-say 90db, Its not ~~quality mids. The driver is attempting to perform 2 tasks, same cycle, bass+ midrange. Seas and Scann speaks have made some incredible attempts at bridging these 2 feats all into 1 driver. But when you place a high quality wide band up next to a midwoofer,,,you will understand, as i understand the issues involved. Then we have the ~~Midrange~~ tweeter, = midtweet. Again, nice try, but no cigar. The tiny 3/4 inch dome tweet is making attempts to voice both mids and highs,,but in the end,,No Cigar. What everyone should do, is what I did,. Start buying wide bands, take out your tweet, and listen to how the new rick detailed mids come through. I am not looking for a wide band to carry anything other thahn say 100hz- 10khz. I can find woofers and tweets to voice the lows/highs. The W18's will stay to give a padding to kettle drums, bouble bass, low cello notes. I have them xossing at 1200ish..?? At 87db, and near field listening, you really dont get much bang. Anyway. I could never go back to midwofers/tweeter things. That is history. |
bache374 posts08-20-2021 3:39pm@erik_squires i use assistant woofer and also assistant supertweeter in all my models bacheaudio to help wide band driver, Adding subwoofer is not help to cover 150 -350 hz. All wide diver and some woofers also got poor ability to reproduce this freg, I dont understand why so many audiophile like full range drivers , No punch, Thin sound ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I have not heard the AER's which from what I;'ve read , are the finest wide bands in production...But wayyyyy out my budget, So I'll never owna pair. The Voxativ AC1A's. were a **dud**. No bass, none, nada comming from the super thin papyrus paper cone. I wont even go into the midrange and highs comming from that driver. This design employs a series of neodymium magnets , like 8, placed along the motor. Perhaps the origi9nal magnet design is superior,. I have no idea. I am not interested. Again at $2300+++ a pair, I am not interested. I've found the DavidLouis wide band at very reasonable price and am quite happy what i am hearing I have another pair arriving next week. WE will see how that one performa snext to the 6.5 DL wide band. I am planing to run both, stacked. My speaker system will be a pair of 6.5's + 8's + The Thors. I really believe this will give me a classical orchestra experience that I've always been looking for. Its all about experiementation. But to answer your Q, sure the older designs, from Lowther, Fostex, had isssues. With these DavidLouis, I think some of these issues are dealt with. The lil 6.5 davidLouis (yellow cone) has OK bass, good clean mids, highs that do not roll off too early= a success. As I say I have the bass and highs already covered. I can see what Wilson was up to in their designs, packing the cabinet with all sorts of drivers. Trying to make the thing sound huge dynamic, full bodied, = Best Bang. Throwing a bunch of drivers in a cabinet is risky, somehwere there is going to be distortion, coloration which may result in listeners fatigue. I think Erik's OP offers the best option for acheiving full range/wide band fq's. The speaker's main driver is the wide band. With a woofer padding the lows, and a tweet padding the highs. The main dominate voice is from the wide band at a true 91+ db sensitivity. I am having spectacular results. AS it is, makes this speaker a winner. But there was another DL wide band that caught my attention, and we will see how this driver holds up against the 6.5's. |
Having owned and heard 2 of the worlds finest ever made tweeters Seas Millennium Seas Crescendo and the worlds finest ever made midwoofer Seas EXCEL W18E001 Based on this experience, I look at tweeters, midwoofers as ~~nothing more~~~ than helpers, supporters, offering augmentation for the wonder-full, incredible, fantastic, stunning ~~wide bands. That is to say, non-wide band drivers, really dont interest me in the least. Thats is to say, I'd never buy a Wilson, nor a Vandersteen. To me ears they all sound the same, fatiguing, when pushed to their limits. |
Listen to female vocals at 5:45 Your speakers cant do that. Neither Wilsons nor Vandersteens can reproduce vocals as my speaker can and this is YT compressed, via your $20 computer speakers!!!! Sounds exactly like the Seas Millennium's, and Philips 1980's clear dome tweet, but ona factor of 10 X's superior. Why? Much higher sensitivity. 5:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57JLhOnjqck |
@mozartfan, this time I am left speechless. I bet you like wine no? In my own universe music is music. Does not matter the genre. The system's settings remain the same. A system that is excellent with Punk is going to be excellent with everything else. I am dead sure that your definition of "excellent" is different than mine. But, I suppose that is why Howard Johnson made 28 flavors. We all know that the only true ice cream is Vanilla. Everything else is just vanilla with a lot of distortion. Being a DIY kind of person I make my own. |
Here ya go Have not heard even 1 speaker in this list. Dont care to. There may be some things I ~~mighyt~~ like about these 25,, then again,,there may be issues.. ~~extra baggage~~, Its been my 40 yr goal to avoid all ~~extra baggage~. allowing only the purity of the music to be ~~en-joy`ed. I am sure some of these do some very wonderful things. But at what cost?? Sorry not interested = Not my cup of teaS THe Seas Thors do some nice things with music,, But sadly, at 87db, sens, its like music from behind closed doors , when placed next to a wide band. AS they say, no speaker is perfect, there are ~~compromises~~ WEll with my wide band as ~~front/center~~, this is IMHO the least compromises of any design.. For classical music. Midwoofers are attempting to carry the critical 500hz-1500hz. Sorry not acceptable. Crossing at the critical 1500hz-2khz ,, now we really have a mess, with the tweeter attempting to voice again critical 1500hz-4khz. I've not heard the AER in person, so I can't say how this popular wide band performs. Maybe one day I will attend the Tampa Audio Fest, and get to hear it. But honestly I have zero interest in the AER's. Just look at the horn cabinet's for these drivers. Ridiculous. Repeating above I have zero interest in any of these speakers on the list, and have no interest whatsoever in any other TRoel Gravesen speaker, who I feel makes the finest speakers. My intent is to cofirm what Erik has a hunch in the OP. A wide band can carry the critical range far superior to any other type design. I made my experiements, and concur the OP is spot on ~~the real deal~~ https://audiophilereview.com/audiophile/the-25-ultimate-audiophile-speakers-of-all-time/ |
Mozart ; your use of we suggests you had a date with Einstein …. Not sure when you got a jones for Vandersteen but if you and your creation make it up to Seattle, we ( as in you, me and ? ) can listen to the clash, cosmic hippo and of course your namesake on the world acclaimed model 7. IF you desire more neutral ground, haul them to Munich. of course, we can use the venerable ESL-63, Apogee Stage, Thiel 2.3+, even my hot rod Dynaco A-25….. I am betting your driver pukes on Cosmic Hippo… carry on |
My fully horn loaded, triamplified, DIY speakers use AER BD3 wide range drivers loaded into BD Design Oris 150 front horns to cover the range of 200Hz to 8kHz. Folded corner horns provide the bass and Fostex T900a super tweeters cover the range above 8kHz. A DEQX HDP3 preamp-DSP provides digital crossovers, with all slopes being set at 96 dB/octave, as well as time and phase correction, speaker correction, room correction, etc. I came up with the idea for this system in 1999, but it was 2004 before I found a DSP unit available that met all my needs. The SQ of this system is in the opinion of my audiophile friends including one audio professional very good, lifelike, detailed and exiting. I am convinced that the absence of any crossovers between 200Hz and 8 kHz is vital to the SQ. |