resolution and imaging

I ask, should live music really be the holy grail of audio experience? Based on my live concert experiences, I would more often choose to hear my audio system over live music. I point to poor sound reinforcement, less than favorable venue acoustics, even poor performance as reasons to favor the in home experience. While I can accept live music as the ultimate musical experience, it more often doesn't live up to it's promise.

Absolutely have the same kinds of experience with much of the live music I hear (not all of it or I'd probably just stop going). As I intimated before, holding the experience of live music as the "holy grail", as you put it, is an exercise in frustration, and can easily get in the way of enjoying a perfectly wonderful system. I recently read an excellent summation this fruitless effort, albeit in rather coarse terms. Nevertheless, it summed up my feelings on the matter quite well. I'll see if I can find it in my 'history' and post a link.

I completely agree that room treatments can make or break both a system or a concert venue. It does not necessarily have to spoil ones experience of the music though...I guess that's really up to the individual. I can think of concerts where the acoustics were not great and I had a great time and very much enjoyed the experience, and I can also think of times where poor acoustics absolutely ruined what might have been a really great concert.

I don't think that depth and dimension is the be-all end-all goal of all audiophiles. As Dave_b illustrating with the 'meaningless drivel', which could, of course, be applied to most of anyone's material pursuits. I guess my response to that would be to ask why you were participating in the conversation if you felt that way? Other than that I agree with the rest of the sentiment - go with what moves your heart and soul. I don't know that any of us can actually completely remove our 'head' from the equation, but it is a noble pursuit (the world may be a better place if we could). Ultimately it is the best of what music does for me (as well as other pursuits of passion): it takes me out of my head. What a great feeling that is!!

some recordings are made to 'image' on a 2 channel stereo, while others are not. as for an image that is too big...most live music is even bigger....and there's no imaging, at least in the audiophile sense of the word...and bass is never 'tight'or'fast'.

OK, found it. Here is a very pointed and brief post on the futility of using live music as your goal that really nails it, IMO. Some of you are probably familiar with the author, Romy the Cat. In this case, I could not agree more with him. English is obviously not his first language, though he seems to do pretty well with it in spite of that. Check out the rest of his site for some entertaining, and often illuminating reading.

Sns,

I agree with your assessment.

Great thread . Is it about the music or its reproduction . Its both of course but oh how we obsess over the details. Its what motivates us and keeps us hooked on this fascinating hobby. Resolution is often what drives us as each incremental upgrade uncovers more of the recordings we love . We gravitate to better recordings as time passes and often this dictates our listening habits. It often begins with solid state and gravitates to tube gear and sometimes right back. Imaging and sound staging properties can often be a product of speaker placement and acoustical room control. Indeed , a Pandora's Box that should be opened and worked on diligently. My personal journey has evolved around the balance between achieving the most resolution I can obtain while maintaining intense musicality which hooks me into the listening chair for hours. Musicality is one of those intangible words that we all seem to recognize yet cant express . I think its a personal effect . I have been through electrostats , line source , direct radiating ect ect ect and they all bring their particular magic to the table. Recently I picked up a pair of MBL 101 E speakers . The effect is like being washed with a tightly woven fabric of sound in vibrant colors yet the imaging is not nearly as specific as any speaker I have worked with . I am not able to get the same pinpoint imaging yet what I am hearing is more like live music in real space . I find myself unchaining my brain and allowing my mind to effortlessly wander through the soundscape without the desire to evaluate the specifics . I imagine we all experience our systems a little differently , this is just my observations .