Supporting Local Audio Stores are we?


I know, money talks, bullshi* walks...
But having owned an audio store for about a dozen years, I know how tough it is to 'make a living' for a mom and pop store, without some sugar daddy/momma in the background funding the enterprize.
So, I am wondering if the nice folks of Audiogon support local businesses?
As I stated, "Money Talks" and I get it, we all want the best 'value' for our money. The question is...when does the price versus local support begin/end. When does the follow up and or service/set up outweigh the raw savings?
To be clear, I am not talking fantastic discounts, but a few percentage points off retail. I remember a painful transaction that I had once, during which a customer had taken home a particular CD player two weekends running, only to purchase elsewhere because he 'saved' $53.00 (on a $500. item). OUCH!
I contended that without the long term audition, he had nothing on which to base his purchase? How does everyone else see this?
Right now, its obviously a tough financial climate out there, but looking to more normal times, I am wondering how many of the readers/writers of Audiogon would forego price for service/set up? OK, forget buying great used pieces for fractions of original retail, everyone must probably assume that that's good for everyone, including the dealers, as this frees up customers who are now, 'back in the hunt'.

It will be interesting to hear back, it's been some time since the Brick and Mortar (at least for me) question was aired out.

Best,
Larry
lrsky
Tvad says:
"Teaching, or demonstrating value takes longer than paying at the checkout stand, and many buyers simply don't have the patience to take the time to understand what they may gain by utilizing a dealer who provides them with extra service and perks...the elusive value."

You really nailed it. Why, in our ADHD society do we fail to 'take the time' to understand that by gaining a partner (read really good dealer) do we chase the price and not the product. Are we audio nuts all dillitantes or are the sales people that inept?

Someone, Jeff (forget his last name) recanted a story here on A'gon about the best sales experience he had ever had, talking about how he paid 'full retail' and was glad to do it, because of the sales experience.
Really, if it took an extraordinary experience for him to feel that paying full retail was something special, I guess that shows that very few of the sales people out there are doing an adequate job of defining and extending the lines between price and value. That was the nature of my soliloqy on the diamond in my last post.
People buy intangibles, but usually need tangible reasons to do so. One tangible in the buyers mind, would be the 'value received' either in the form of the product or the service rendered by the dealer. When he or she gets both, the 'perceived value' escallates exponentially--therefore talk of pricing would usually evaporate quickly.

I remember right here on audiogon, people paying full retail and waiting for MONTHS and MONTHS to buy preamps and amps from Mick, in Australia. I personally don't recall anyone (they may have) talking about a discount or a special inducement from him to purchase. It was all about their perceived value of the product. That whole scenario seems to be at odds with the discussion here, or does it actually confirm some of the comments?

People felt that they were getting the best price, because Mick was selling 'direct', no middle man, therefore they could perceive a value greater than those run through distribution. So the question now becomes, how many of those people who purchased, actually heard the product personally? How many realized a demo? Would they have paid restocking or a higher price to confirm the sonic qualities of the product?
Levelling the playing field with factory direct and distributed products has always been a knotty question. If it were simple to factory direct, why wouldn't everyone do it? Ford Motor...eliminate the dealer, just call 1-800-MUSTANG and get one?
The nature of audio is such that the vast majority must have a demo, they must experience the magic.

Many years ago in Nashville, TN. I demonstrated the Pipedreams Loudspeakers to a man who actually owned several auto dealerships, and was by any standards very wealthy. He only came in to the store because he was friends with the owner of the Pipedreams (Nearfield Acoustics) Company. After an hour of playing music, (Prayer with Andre and Celine or Brightman and Josh, he left the store with tears in his eyes, REALLY, saying that I had made him 'uncomfortable'. Well...I was stunned...I didn't get it.
A week later he came in with his wife and bought the speakers, for $30K full price. His wife called me aside and thanked me. I blinked, "For what, maam." (again confused).
"You changed my husband..., he was this, macho dude afraid of his emotions, and his experience led us to countless hours of talks he and I, Thanks."
I was really moved by that. I still to this day, shake my head.

"Music hath charm."

So, Grant, given the experience that most of us have had in audio stores, I don't blame ANYONE for being focused on price, because it's not very often that sales people out there do the job well enough to mitigate the price objection.
Least you think I am making a blanket, 'know it all' statement, I will tell you that, I made a living 'shopping and training audio sales people all over the country.' I know how elitist and condescending many in the audio stores act, therefore, chase the customers to price rather than value.

The answer to this whole thread is: what, people?

Larry
PS Good one Grant!
Post removed 
For what it is worth I continue to support Larry at Hollywood Sound and have done so for years. Although now it is a 90 minute drive, but has always been worth the time and dollars spent with him. Yes he is a B&M dealer, heavy into all things analog, vast experience of about some 30 years or more. Know of many more folks that make the drive. He does business as it should be conducted. Thats why he has lasted all these years.
Jmcgrogan,

"That might be insulting if it came from a real man, considering the source, all I can do is LMAO."

Who are you anyway and why do you care?
The comment was neither to you or about you, it was a joke between friends..so who cares what you think in the first place? The difference between me and you is I would say that to his face, I doubt you would say that to mine.
EDIT
I think you assumed I was talking to you, there are many named John and reading closer you may pick up on the fact I was joking with the dealer "John" cheers
Hi Larry,

Given the context of your writings, it looks like you are establishing price by attaching values to service, product availabilty, demos, expertise. Given that there will always be customers who appreciate and happily pay for these attributes, do you then end up with a business that caters exclusively to the very few who are willing to pay 40% or 50% of the sticker price for these benefits? Seems to me you could do a whole lot better selling services a la carte to shoppers who need them. Bundling the service with the product is a solution for some, but it's patently obvious that, for the majority, they would prefer a choice. What if i call you with an order for a product, need no help or guidance in selecting it, just a fast over the counter transaction. If i pay your service surcharge without receiving or needing the service, am i not paying more than i should? If you want to call that extra payment 'supporting' my local dealer, i wonder what i get in return for said support, other than the uneasy feeling that I'm 'supporting' a business model that may no longer be relevant. i do apologize for being so blunt, but the answer to the thread is that, no, for many of us, we do not support our local dealer. Why? We think we can do better with our audio spending dollars elsewhere. It really is as simple as that i think.
i guess as long as I'm in this deep, i may as well articulate another belief i have regarding pricing and its impact on the industry. i believe that nothing has marginalized, isolated, satirized and damaged the high end more than the price structure neccessary to 'support' the infrastucture. When less consumers buy into the value proposition, retailers buy less product from manufacturers, they in turn need to derive more profit from weaker sales to support their business, and the end result is 50k amplifiers. So, in a very real sense, supporting my local dealer contributes to this flawed system and perpetuates the damage done to the industry.
It takes a brave man to ask the question you did on a used equipment forum full of value shoppers; hope you take the answers you receive in the spirit they're offered! I'm certain we all want the high end industry to succeed and be profitable, but it looks like we're on shaky ground based on the evidence before us. Maybe the high tech industry will save us from the death spiral that has become the high end industry; people do love music and are buying audio equipment; they just don't see any value in buying ours anymore, sadly.