Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil


I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
Hi all

I spent some time talking to a technician about my output coupling capacitors in my digital source ( Meridian 800 DVD/CD player ) and I now know they are Nichicon 470uf/16Volt types - electrolytic. Those values mean that - as far as I know - Duelund and Jupiter (PIO) caps are completely out of the question. Needless to say I am really disappointed.

After being bowled over by the difference in before/after with my speakers I was very eager to do the same in my dac. Folks - this process of improvement is unbelievably addictive!! lol

A question to the thread members - can anyone please suggest any options for capacitors to substitute into the positions I have here?

I look forward to hearing from you and thanks very much in advance!

Tas
TAS, If the Nichicon 47uf caps are really the output caps, you will probably be able to replace them with a much smaller value. I can't say that for certain without looking at a schematic but I suspect you could replace them with a cap in the .47 to 1.0uf range. The mfr most likely used the big Nichicon because it gave a whole lot of capacitance for a small investment in size as well as cost. Unless your preamp input impedance is very low (less than 50k) or the DAC has a low value loading resistor on the output, a small film cap should probably work fine.
Salectric

You have my absolute attention! Just before I go on, the Nichicon caps are 470uf NOT 47uf. Does that affect your thoughts here?

They are small (in size) physically......not that that's relevant, I guess.

In lieu of the 470 uf rating, would you say your advice would still apply?

Very excited here

Tas
Tas, sorry for the confusion on the cap value. Too early in the morning! My comments on replacing the electrolytic with a small value film cap still apply, but the 470 µF value increases my suspicion that this is really a power supply filter rather than an output coupler.

One final comment. Just because a particular part like a Duelund capacitor has nearly unanimous praise does not mean that it will be an overall improvement in a particular application. For example, many years ago I made the mistake of buying a Threshold FET 10E phono stage based on reviewer recommendations. It turned out it had a large nonpolar electrolytic capacitor on the output so I figured I could improve the sound by replacing the electrolytic with a film capacitor. I tried a number of popular capacitors for that day, all of which made significant changes in the sound but overall I kept returning to the cheap electrolytic as the best sound for that particular preamp. It is quite possible you will find that the 470 µF electrolytic used by the manufacturer has some qualities that you sacrifice with a replacement film capacitor. I'm not saying that to discourage you but you need to go into this with your eyes open.
I find it difficult to understand the use of such a high capacitance electrolytic as a DAC's output "coupling" capacitor. On the surface it doesn't make sense ( most are .47uf-1.0uf). 470uf???

Salectric as usual you offer good perspective and advice. It's true, you won't no the result of a modification until you actually hear it.
I'd find it hard to believe that a premium PIO capacitor wouldn't be an improvement over a large value electrolytic as a coupling cap.
Charles,