Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil


I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
I have to agree with a lot of what Johnk said. Too many people, including folks on this thread, get seduced by the "I modded it so it must be better" perspective. In all equipment, but especially with speaker crossovers, a "better" component may not actually result in better sound. There are too many other factors involved.

Consider another context. We all know that when we try different preamps or amps in our system, it is often easy to notice certain qualities that we think are improvements but it may take longer to notice failings. Well, the same thing occurs when swapping capacitors, chokes, resistors and wire in a speaker crossover. The new part will undoubtedly change the sound but is it really an improvement? Are there some negative qualities that go along with the positive ones? Often the negatives may seem minor at first but become major issues later on. It does indeed help to return to the unmodified version as a reality check. (I don't agree with making changes to one speaker and leaving the other stock but that was beaten to death earlier in this thread.)

Adding to the confusion is the breakin factor. Nearly all new component parts take time to reveal their true sonic character, so they can't be judged within minutes or even hours after being installed. My approach with crossover parts is to hook them up with a dummy load on another system and run them 24/7 with FM to let them break in prior to trying them in my speakers. Then, after I install them, I switch back and forth between the prior component and the new one every few days or so in order to get a real fix on how each of them sounds (in the context of my speaker). This takes a lot of time and I would not say it is always fun, but I don't know of any other way to evaluate parts objectively.

As an example, I have been trying Duelund CAST resistors in my speaker crossovers. These took a long time to reveal their true character. If I had only listened for a few hours, I would have said they were unacceptable---detailed and dynamic, but too wispy in the highs and lightweight in the bass. Yet after putting a lot more hours on them, I am now very pleased with how they sound. (Incidentally, the CAST resistor sounds nothing at like the regular Duelund resistor.)

So the bottom line is that you do have to go back and forth between parts to assess their true sonic qualities. Some people may be happy after installing a new capacitor and never look back. That's fine for them, and I am not critical of their experience if they are happy with the end result. But this approach won't work for all applications especially where the part being replaced is already of high quality. I would also add that swapping in a brand new component like a Duelund cap that takes a very long time to break in means that it will be difficult to state with any precision how it changed the sound since you are relying on memories from weeks or months earlier.

It should also be obvious that you can't change lots of parts all at one time and then try to say what changes were due to what part. This is one of the things that frustrates me so much about Jeff Day's long blog about his Tannoy Westminsters, but that is for another day.
Johnk

I'm sorry to hear you're out but, if I may be permitted a superficial observation to your comments on here, you seemed too vehemently one sided to me.

I should add...... , you started off your messages by saying:

"Thread is 6 years old you would think the networks been sorted out by now sure looks to be a extremely costly bunch of putzing about. Might of been better to just saved up and bought better kit."

What I got out if reading this thread is that it's possible to save HUGE sums of time (and money) - the exact opposite of your view - and, what's more, I have. That doesn't appear to interest you or you're suspicious of the idea. I think you are operating on a different wavelength altogether and you'll never be interested.

Scalectric Excellent and very, very patient post. Thank you for persisting.

Cheers, Tas (who is still beaming lol)
P.S. I also like world peace and Thai food....lol
Salectric:

Actually, "bugger it" (another Australian expression lol), you rock! Thanks so much for all your free information and insights.

To the forum:

I reckon Johnk is a dealer otherwise he'd be "pissing himself with excitement" ( yet another wonderful Aussie expression.....where do we come up with them?! Lol) about at least trailing some of the things that have been determined on here.

Cheers again, Tas (who is now just being naughty, having a laugh and shouldn't be taken seriously FOR THIS POST ONLY ha)
I believe Johnk builds speakers. If he and Salectric feel it's necessary to perform multiple A/B testing to be certain that the differences are legitimate, more power to them. Some situations may require that degree of scrutiny, I get that. In my case of changes/upgrades it'd be a waste of my time. The improvement was simply too apparent and profound. The CAST affect was a stark contrast initially and nearly 2 years later that hasn't changed. To each their own.
Charles,
Charles, everyone reading this thread knows you replaced a Solen with a Duelund CAST and noticed a big improvement. That's great and I am glad you're happy, but it's hardly surprising. Solens are, to put it politely, not a very high threshold to surpass. Here's an analogy: if someone replaces the Pioneer transistor amp he's been using for the past 20 years with an Audio Research preamp and amp, he will be very pleased with the improvement. That doesn't mean, however, that ARC is the best sounding amp in the world. Without hearing other high-quality amps, he may be quite happy, but if he hears VTL, VAC, Emotive Audio, CJ etc., he will realize that the ARC equipment has flaws and he may prefer another brand instead.

It's the same thing with capacitors. You need to try a lot of different caps and in various applications to gain a full appreciation of each cap's sonic qualities. A few months ago I posted something in this thread asking people to describe any negative qualities they hear in CAST caps. As I recall, Grannyring and I were the only ones who had any complaints. That's not because we have super-human hearing. It's because we have spent a lot of time comparing different caps.

And that is why I say in order to gain a more complete, a more nuanced understanding of what a cap sounds like, you have to compare it to other caps of similar quality. That hardly seems like a controversial statement.