I'm confused

Guys, thank you very much. I have a heading direction. Glad that I came here to seek your expertise for valuable advice.

Marty9876 and Gunbei, I will experiment with "small speaker" setting on my AVR as I dump more load onto the subwoofer.

Buscis2, I will try your suggested experiment before I toss out my Monster Powerbar and head out for a power conditioner.

Sean and Cytocycle, I love your ideas, i.e. getting a multi-channel amp, and still working on it. By experimenting the setting on gears per recommendations of other Audigon members, I will definitely have more time to wait for a good pre-owned multi-channel amp to show up. Once I have a good amp, hopefully, I can change the setting to "large speakers" on AVR in order to experience the full frequency, which the Phantom speakers offer.

I'm not confused any more!!!!!!

Gentleman, let's put opinions aside and evaluate based on facts and raw numbers. Lej1447 is presently using a 15 amp non-dedicated circuit as a power source for a plasma tv, a 5x90 HT receiver, a 150 watt sub, and any other input sources. On it's best day, that receptacle is capable of providing 1600 watts of AC current. That is assuming he has a solid 120v/60cy waveform with no deviation.

In terms of wattage to SPL ratio, 1 watt is providing 89db of SPL. Let us use the gradient scale for increased SPL output. In order to increase SPL by 3db, we would need to double the power. So, 2 watts would provide 92db, 4 watts/95db, 8 watts/98db, 16 watts/101db, 32 watts/104db, 64 watts/107db and based on present calculations, 128 watts/110db.

I am sure that most of us realize how loud 107db of SPL is, in a 12'x13' room. Most gunshots in Dolby Digital or DTS format are mixed to provide 103db. So this would give a fair indication of how loud 107db actually is.

The output wattage of most amplifiers is rated at 120 volts. If the receptacle is only providing say, 117 volts, current in watts would drop to 1350 watts.

Now, a plasma tv can use as much as 500 watts of AC. A 150 watt sub, considering high dynamic passages, could demand up to 600 watts of power. The HT amplifier based on a 90 watt output per channel would use a minimum of 450 watts, and that is not even considering power loss for operation efficiency. Let us not even consider the source components being used.

We have just used 1550 watts of AC power.

Now we are recommending another 3 channel amplifier?

Treat me like I'm an idiot. Where is the AC power coming from, to operate this additional amplifier?

(I'll give you a clue), IT AIN'T THERE. Are we now worsening an existing problem by adding ANOTHER amplifier and not seeing the forest from the trees?

My opinion regarding power conditioning precludes AC filtration. That is not my primary concern. AC current capability, current limiting, and AC instability is my primary concern.

I think we are fixing the blame, not the problem. I have this funny feeling that if this little HT receiver had a STABLE AC power source, such as Marty suggests, a dedicated 20 amp receptacle or as I suggest a power regenerator/stabilizer, he might have a problem resolved. This is even considering a "mid fi" HT receiver with it's questionable power supplies.

A tree needs water to grow. An amplifier needs AC power to amplify. Let's not ignore the most basic of operating principals.

With all due respect, my opinion still stands. Provide the AC power required for this amplifier to operate PROPERLY, and the listening results may be quite different.

Gunbei- I just stated 80Hz as a place to start. Keep things simple, less confusion for this specific instance. Reality here is crossing at 120Hz or higher might be the best idea. I don't know if the Denon receiver in this thread has these options. If the manual says by setting the speakers to small means they will be crossed at 80Hz by default I just thought this would make more sense.

Buscis2- Interesting statements on the power issues. In my opinion you could plug this receiver into the site of a nuclear power plant and still come up lacking. It is a very small receiver in all aspects. I'm not sure how much one can ask of this receiver.

Marty

Marty, I guess my question would be, "How much receiver do you need for 107db in a 12'x13' room"?

Buscis2,
Your statement is very valid. Since my HT is not even high end, how do other pros address such issue? If AC outlet is the constraint, how do they run their high-end systems, which consist of numerous higher power amps and many bigger speakers?

Gunbei,
If the crossover is set so high, why do people want to spend lots of money on hi-end speakers that can produce low freqency?

I'm confused!!!!!!