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Tube Amp for Magnepan 3.6 - Rogue Zeus/VTL-MB450

Hey Audiogoners,

First post to A-gon and I need your advice! I've researched this site extensively, read thousands of your threads, and purchased good product through you folks. So here goes.....

Bought a used pair of Maggie 3.6Rs -absolutely love them! [Chose over ML Odyssey, Ascent i (also liked), Maggie 1.6] They're accompanied w/Supernal tweeters and an AMC B1-20 sub. I'm upgrading my stack from ss to tubes. Caught the addiction! Having listened to tubes while auditioning e-stats/planars, I've concluded that they just make the sound more "real life" -at least for my taste (go to alot of live shows). I just love that sound!

Also picked up a used VTL 2.5 tube pre-amp along with the 3.6s. Had no prior knowledge of VTL. The 2.5 presents a beautiful large deep soundstage (3D), brings everything to life, sounds tubey -not overly tubey. I've heard some pre-amps I like better (Viva Linea), but at a much higher price point.

So, I want to upgrade two things -Amp and CD

Amp:

Having had such good experience with VTL, I'm tempted to pick up a used pair of VTL-MB450s (at half list), never having heard them. Also considering Rogue Zeus (used)-listened through modest set of electronics/speakers. The Zeus is so powerful that it actually carried the entire system. Bass is tremendous -best I've heard in a tube amp so far. Could have been a tad more articulate in the mid/highs, and didn't present a deep soundstage, but I'm tending to attribute these limitations to the electronics/speakers that accompanied the setup. My sense is that the Zeus could power my 3.6s very well, and drive them to their potential. Zeus is also very well made. Liked the warm standby switchable mode as well as built-in tube biasing. Knocks -it's So friggin' heavy (even more of a monster in real life), & pumps out a ton of heat. Definitely an Uber-amp.

Is there anyone out there in Audiogondom who has listened to both the Rogue Zeus AND the VTL-MB450, and can give me a real life comparison???.....

Other products I've auditioned ...to give a sense of my listening tastes (please DO NOT BE OFFENDED as I'm not trying to knock a brand of gear you may own; it's all good):

ASL Hurricanes - listened opposite Zeus, w/better electronics/speakers. Found them to be more articulate (tubey) in the mids (real nice), lean highs, definitely light bass (compared to Zeus).

Jolida 3000 monos - sounded decent w/3.6s. Tad syrupy. Definitely not the bass slam/quickness of Zeus. Good sound none the less.

Sim Audio Moon W-5 (I know it's ss, but comes highly recommended with the 3.6s) - listened while auditioning Metronome tube CD (w/Moon stack, Triangles). The whole setup disappointed me. The sound was flat, not dimensional. Maybe it was the setup. I'm still stumped.

Can't find Wolcotts in my area. Haven't auditioned VAC.

So, VTL-450 or Rogue Zeus? And why?

Second question, CD.

Tubes?

I really like the Shanling 200 sound, but have heard consistently horrible stories (from 3 of 4 dealers) about reliability. Heard they've addressed firmware issues, but still leary about dropping bucks on a unit with double digit failure rate.

Others...
Metronome CDv2 demo - just sounded flat an uninspiring (maybe it was the system).
Jolida 100 modified - sounded good; lively, crisp, warm but not too tubey.
AMC DB6 modified (with an AMC DAC9 modified) - decent, but not as articulate or sweet as Shanling, not as crisp as Jolida, and didn't seem all that well built. I do like the DAC9 by itself though.
Eastern Electric Mini Max -good for the money, well built, but simply can't compare to Shanling sound.
Audio Research top loader -didn't enjoy w/Krell stack
Musical Fidelity 308 -beautiful crisp highs; maybe should audition w/tube stack.
Wadia 861, McCormick ($3K) -just didn't enjoy them

So, I'm stuck. I like the Shanling sound, but not its Word Of Mouth reliability.

Any other suggestions? Next on my audition list is the Cary 308t. Remember, I'm looking for that warm, lively, beautifully finished sound -but not too analytical.

Sim Audio Moon Eclipe? Rega Jupiter? Other?

Thank you folks.
angelsmtn
rooze's avatar
rooze
584 posts
 
El..Just to add to the above comment, I think a lot of people would enjoy the process that I've been going through this past year, trying out different amps. So far I've had 9 amps in a year and counting.

I kind of enjoyed it for a while but it's now gotten to be a real pain in the butt, not to mention the back and other parts of my fragile anatomy. In fact, I've been walking around with a permanent stoop from carrying too many 100LB+ amps in and out of the house!!
On Monday, I sprouted a third testicle whilst lifting a Krell FPB200 out of the trunk of my little Dodge Stratus R/T at the UPS station....The woman on the desk asked if I was having a seizure when I walked in. She asked the same question just after she quoted me $467.00 for shipping to my buyer in Sweden.
The Carver sure would be easier on my back and balls, not to mention my wallet.

Rooze

eldartford
4,262 posts
 
Rooze...If I were you (which I am not) and I needed to spend some more money, I would Mod one of my Carver amps, buy a Marchand Electronics crossover, and biamp my Maggies, with the Mod amp on top.

You already have the Carver amp, so the cost is $1700, not $2450. Can you really get the pair of VTL 450 for $3750, Used already. Are you ready for the upkeep costs of a big tube amp? I am sure you will want to upgrade all the tubes right away.

Are you having fun yet?
eldartford
4,262 posts
 
And furthermore...I still think that a much simpler mod (that what EA and RAM are doing) would be almost as good. Parts...$200. Labor...$200. Profit...$300. Total cost $700. Maybe I will play around with one of my amps after all.
troyca
45 posts
 
The Music Reference RM-9 MK 2 has awesome sound and has bulletproor reliability.I have planar speakers and the sound is the just awesome.I have a cal sigma 2 dac that i am also happy with.
bradz's avatar
bradz
229 posts
 
While I can't suggest a tube amp, the ss Innersound esl amp is quite a bargain, especially if you can find one on the used market. I use one with my 1.6's and couldn't be happier.
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