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Help with Soundstage effect improvements

I'm not sure exactly where to post this question, please forgive the length. I recently purchased the Musical Fidelity X-150 and X ray CD combo. They are only a couple weeks old, running 24 X 7 on repeat. I already had a pair of Canton Ergo 900s that I've had about a year. It sounds pretty good with budget ICs and 10g copper speaker cables, a little weak on mid bass at lower volumes. I began experimenting with quality ICs and Bi-Wire cables this weekend, but quickly ran into confusion as usual. I friend lent me a pair of high quality?? ($1,000) silver ICs, but they were overly bright, so my dealer told me to bring them in and let him beat-up on them with a pair of way less expensive Transparent Music Link Plus cables. He used the Musical Fidelity A.5 combo integrated and CD and a pair of Vanderstein floor speakers. We put the silver ICs in and they sounded pretty good to me, then he switched them out and put in the Tranparents. I probably would not have caught the differences being such a novice at this point, but he pointed out several things that were actually true. The instruments were definitely in different locations front and back. Background singers were definitely to the left beyond the speakers. A guitar came from backstage up to the front during a solo, then drifted back. I found all this very cool, so I bought the ICs, took them home and hooked everything up. I was much disappointed and confused that I had very little stage and no separation. Everything was pretty much coming from the 8 foot circle around my Ergos. The actual music sounded good mind you, but no fancy mo-jo or magic. After an hour or two, I also noticed the highs became annoying and I had to cut the volume down quite a bit. This left me with no impact or beef if you know what I mean. The sweet spot couldn't be tolerated very long. I have no idea where to go from here. If someone with experience could offer direction, I would appreciate your comments. I would really like to duplicate the sound at the dealer, but know it's a complex issue, may take some more experimenting, and possibly room management.
grubs4fishn
newbee
4,767 posts
 
IMHO about 95% of good imaging/soundstage effects comes from the speaker/room interface - the other 5% is from fine tuning with choice of electronic's and cables/IC's. There has been a lot of discussion in this forum on proper speaker set up and room treatment. I suggest you start doing some research. You can also get some down and dirty recommendations by posting your present room size, including present speaker and listing positions, furniture and placement, windows and openings (and their locations). You should also look at the Rives site for his comments on these issues as well. By the way, if you can return those cables and get a refund, do so. After you fine tune your room set up then you can better assess what difference, if any, cables (or different components) will make in your system. FWIW there is no quick fix - doing the room thing takes a lot of time and patience.
gunbei
2,327 posts
 
Yeah, I wish I'd known what Newbee just said five years ago when I boarded this non-stop merry-go-round called high end audio.

Spending a lot of money on cables and such won't help a sonically challenged environment.

Stay with the budget cables for awhile and experiment with placement of your speakers. If it seems like you're hearing the room as well, acoustic treatments need to be considered.

If the manufacturer of your speaker has a recommended set up configuration, use that as a basis and tweak from there. After trying certain positions you'll know right away that you do or don't like it, but other times you may have to live with a configuration for a few weeks or months to get a feel for the small sonic nuances associated with it.

As Newbee stated, this takes time and patience. Find what information you can on high end acoustic environments such as Rives website and see how his recommendations compare to what you currently have.

Also, listen to other systems if you can. Building experience will also help you identify sonic differences easier and help you decide whether they're positive or negative changes.

Good luck!
rooze's avatar
rooze
638 posts
 
You have a bunch of issues wrapped up in your post that you need to fathom out. First off, you shouldn't be doing any 'critical listening' when you're still breaking in new gear. You need to get 300 or 400 hours on the electronics at least, before you're ready to sit down and analyze things.
When you're at that stage, if you still don't get what you are expecting, then here are some possibilities to consider.
1 - your system and your dealers system are totally different, as are your rooms, so you can't expect to hear at home what you heard in the store, just because you're using the same speaker wire or interconnect.

2 - you may need to experiment with isolation components under your electronics, like cones or vibrapods. You should also raise your speaker cables off the floor, just use plastic cups at first.

3 - you may need to mess with speaker placement and listening seat location. Whenever I change a component in my system I usually have to adjust the speakers a little. For example, I added a dedicated line a couple weeks ago that gave the sound a brighter edge, so I needed to play around with toe-in to get rid of some of the brightness. You have totally new electronics so you may need to realign your speakers.

4 - if you still don't get the detail from the soundstage that you seek, you may need to play with some basic acoustic treatments. Dampen the first reflection points on the side walls. Try a combination of absorption and diffusion behind the speakers, try a rug in between the speakers a few feet out into the room. You may need to treat the wall behind your seat also.

You've made a major change in your system and you have some break-in time to get through and some adjustments to make after things have broken in.

Just my two penneth.

Rooze
beavis
272 posts
 
Sounds to me like a negative room interaction.

Would suggest you slow down until you've had chance to establish what stereo sounds like in room & then go experiment. Don't confuse yourself any more than neccessary with different components, ICs at first.

Don't try to do it all until you've established what changes you feel are neccessary. It'll just lead to aural overload. One (at most two) changes at a time for yout brain to process & you know what effect the change makes.
flg2001's avatar
flg2001
543 posts
 
I got good results using cutom-made, low-cost 12 inch cylinder at 1.4mts tall fabric absorber. I placed this sonic trap just in the middle of both speakers and got great center image and soundstaging. I am sure that professional and commercial options will serve you as well.

Fernando
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