2. tech-talk
  3. 1035343733

Budget system not up to expectations...

Hi.
I've just set up a new system, and I'm trying to troubleshoot it.
Hopefully, someone might have some insight for me.

I had an older Onkyo system (SV414 amp with 6CD) powering some old Infinity Studio Monitor 100s.

I'd been looking around to upgrade my speakers, and decided that B&W CDM1s sounded great for their pricepoint.
I found a used pair, that the seller let me demo, and they sounded great compared to what I'd previously had.
So upon purchase, I decided that it was time to move up from lampcord and buy some quality speaker cable.
I selected a used 10' of Analysis Plus Oval 9, which came with the T1 spades, that of course did not fit in the Onkyo barewire speaker connects.

So I had to upgrade my amp. I decided to go with a Denon AVR-1803 receiver over the Yamaha RX-V800.
Of course when the Denon arrived the speaker posts fit banana & barewire only (I could have sworn I read that it had 5-way!) which when speaking to Analysis Plus about retermination,
they said that AudioQuest makes a Spade to Banana adapter that would be just fine. It didn't make much sense to me that if the construction of a cable is so crucial, how an adapter could be harmless, but I took the manufacturer's word for it.

I noticed that my Apex DVD player had a digital coax out, so I figured, why not see how that fits in with the system, since I already own it, plus the cost of an AQ VSD1 coax.

So finally, this evening, I got a chance to hook it all up after a month of frugal planning.

While it sounds better than my old system, I can't quite tell if I'm being over-expectant, but it doesn't quite sound as good as when I demo'd the speakers on my old Onkyo connected with quickly stripped spare coax I had out in the garage.
The sound seems muffled, and the stereo field sounds completely fake. If I position myself near the sweet-spot, and lean from left to right, it feels like the corresponding speaker is simply louder, and there is no illusion of stereo space.
I auditioned the same CDs on both the Onkyo CD through Analog, and the Apex DVD on both digital and analog. (the Onkyo had much much more bass.)

Can anyone offer any suggestions?

System recap:

Denon AVR-1803
B&W CDM1 on Apollo A3 stands
10' Analysis Plus Oval 9 with T1 Spades & gold banana adapters
(used, so pre-burnt in)
Onkyo 6-Disc changer
Apex AD-660 DVD with Digital out
painter
pe3046
120 posts
 
I can tell you the integrated's that I was looking at, but my speakers were not as power hungry as the bw. Someone just posted a used Rotel for $425, The audio refinement complete (60w per channel but very nice and musical sounding), The roksan caspian..I have seen these go used for $595 sometimes, the creek, nad, arcam. Someone more familiar with the power requirements of the BW can direct you to the type of wattage you want. If it were me, I would sell the AP Oval 9 speaker cables to spend more money towards the amp (you should be able to get what you paid for them if you bought them used off audiogon). As never owning these but from what I have read they are more towards the neutral to bright sound, the opposite I would think of what you would need for this level of equipment. You should look to spend around $30-50 used on interconnects (straightwire chorus, MIT T2, DIY cables, audioquest)and less than $100 used on speaker cables (a little more for bi-wire versions)I would go for a warmer sounding cable but that is what I like. For $600 you could get a Adcom GF710 pre-amp (remote) and a adcom 545 or 5400 amp. I would advise you to do more research (search older threads,look on audio asylum also) on integrated and pre/amp combos or what amp's people are using with the bw and then post again. There are also some good deals in higher wattage amps if you go something a little older.

Patrick
gunbei
2,327 posts
 
I used three different runs of Analysis Plus Oval 9 during the period I owned the Simaudio Moon I-5 and Electrocompaniet ECI-3 integrateds. The speakers at the time were Sonus Faber Concertinos and ProAc Tablette 50 Signatures. My experience with the AP9s was that they delivered a full sound especially in comparison to the DH Labs T14s which they replaced. Although I liked them, I've heard varying accounts of how the AP9s affected people's systems, so I don't think it's safe to assume how they'll sound if you buy a new amp.

The Simaudio Moon I-5 is a 70wpc solid state integrated. It has lot's of detail, but sounds a bit on the lean side so I don't know how it'll work mated to your B&W CDM1s and source. The Electrocompaniet also 70wpc has most of the good things of the Moon I-5, but with a smoother presentation. Both integrateds sound much stronger than 70wpc, and can usually be found for between $1000-1500 used.

I'm not sure of the CDM1's sonic signature, but I've heard they can be tough to drive, so a tube or low powered SS integrated might struggle a bit. Even still, I would consider the Rogue Tempest or Audio Research CA50 tube integrateds if you can swing the cash and sell your other amps. Do you listen loud? What kind of music do you like?
bomarc
501 posts
 
Painter: One possible explanation that no one's mentioned yet: Buyer's Remorse. You've spent all this time and money, and you're expecting WOW! And all you get is EH? I don't think a $400 integrated is going to solve your problem. I suggest that you STOP upgrading for a while, and see if your new system grows on you. It probably will.
inscrutable
313 posts
 
Bomarc raises an interesting point that makes me think ... The question and subsequent discussion is framed as 'what's wrong with this equipment?'. Wouldn't we take another tack if it were "how can i improve my sound?" To what extent have you looked at your speaker positioning and room issues? Perhaps there is still some low-hanging fruit there.
bob_bundus
1,834 posts
 
yeegads - too much information:
I'm not sure what to make of all this above, but do learn one thing from this experience...
When you make any changes to a system, only make them *one change at a time* then listen for at least a couple of days so you get used to it before changing anything else. If you do not like the change, then go back to square one (even if you do that immediately) & then make a different change elsewhere. It's no wonder that you don't presently know where you're at; you don't really know how you got there.
Go with speakers that you like (you have that now) & then build the rig up around them. Pick one of your receivers, whichever one you like best when connected with zip cord, then experiment with speaker cabling until you find a good match. MIT T2, T3, T4 may work nicely so that's a good rec. You might even consider what the seller was using for both the equipment & the cable interface (you liked the demo). If you start out with a known good working model that's at least a place to grow from.
Next thing is to find out what interconnects work nicely with your source components. If anything has detchable AC cords then this is another possible area of tuning experimentation. Play music that you like & are very familiar with when you demo; use those references consistently.
More to discover