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What causes imaging or the lack of it

My friend and I both have Innersound EROS electrostats, with only a few differences in equipment. My system has incredible imaging, and his has none! We can move my speakers almost anywhere in posistions in attempt to stop imaging, and its still there. On the other hand, we can position his speakers in every possible position except, hanging from the ceiling and no imaging at all. You can rule out anything to do with the distance between them. the distance to the sweet spot, the toe, etc, etc. We both set up our systems perfectly in accordance with Innersound specs. We are trying to find out just what could be causing the difference in our systems, or why his is not imaging? I dont like equipment listings on threads but,it may be necessary for you to help.

My system - Innersound EROS MK1's with MK2 panels, MK3 bass xover amp, and ESL amp. Pioneer elite DV-05 dvd player as transport, Assemblage 2.6 platnum DAC, and d2d upsampler, Kimber D-60 digital cables amd MIT T2 interconnects

His system - Innersound EROS MK1's with MK2 panels, original bass xover amp and parasound amp for panels. same dvd player, same digital cables, same interconnects. His dac is being utilized through an EAD Encore.

Even if you can explain what creates imaging, it will help us. Thanks....
sfrounds
danner
202 posts
 
There are two kinds of phase problems. Relative phase where one channel has a switched phase relative to the other. This is where you need to check all your connections. The other is absolute phase. This is where the channels are the same but the drivers move in the wrong direction at the onset of a signal (inward rather than outward). Some equipment inverts absolute phase (e.g., AES AE-3 preamp). To check this, you can switch the speaker cable + and - at the amp for both speakers and see if the imaging appears. You can also buy the XLO test CD (Amazon and other places) that has songs in and out of absolute phase for checking the problem before switching cables.
eddaytona
216 posts
 
If after playing around like the posts above doesn't do anything, have him bring his speakers to your house and plug into your system and see what happens. That should really tell the tale.
sfrounds OP
35 posts
 
Thanks, for all your good information. The way I understand it is, (1)Ring out the polarity on the speaker cables with an ohm meter, incase of factory error when terminated. (2) try reversing the polarity on each speaker cable, one at a time, then both to see if it makes a difference. (3) check for correct polarity on the line voltage to the equipment, using earth ground as reference. (4)swap out my dac for his, and see what happens. (5) amps. I hope we find the problem before, it gets to a speaker swap out. I dont think its his speakers, they came from a reputable Agon member, and we heard them image beautifully at his home.

I would also like to know, if anyone knows the answer. What exactly is making imaging? Is this something that happens in you hearing or in your brain? Is it when both speakers play the identical thing in perfect relationship to each other? Is imaging being created from the sound coming from the front of the panels, the back, or both? How the heck does it work???
gs5556
1,255 posts
 
Imaging is created by the brain. The sound is recorded on two seperate channels with mikes placed approximately where the ears would be; you then hear each channel from each speaker. Since both ears can hear both speakers simultaneously, the crosstalk from left speaker/channel to both ears and right speaker/channel to both ears recreates the 3D image.

Assuming nothing wrong with the equipment, hookup and power, the main cause of loss of imaging or center image is: a) unequal distance from ears to speakers, and b) excessive room reverbations (reflections that do not decay). Even the crappiest component will image somewhat with quality speakers as will the crappiest speakers with quality components.
phasecorrect's avatar
phasecorrect
2,013 posts
 
Usually the speakers are a)too close together...B)have something large between them with a highly reflective surface(bigscreen tele)...or are simply incapable of producing a stable "out of box" image....
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