2. amps-preamps
  3. 1343407784

World's best Pre-amp for $10K and above?

Looking for the HOLY GRAIL in Audio? Here it is. I'm in my early sixties and retiring to my final system, which I was going to purchase during the past twelve months and decided to put on the brakes, and investigate whats out there as the most advanced engineered high end audio products for the money in the market place. As far as I'm concerned, the two top engineers in the world for the best Amp and Preamp at low prices are Bent Holter with Hegel Audio in Norway and Roger Sanders with Sanders Sound in Colorado. Why? The Hegel P-30 Pre-amp is a game changer, and will easily compete with Pre-amps at $30K and above. The FM Acoustics 268 Preamp that retails for $107K, uses a technology thats called "feedforward" instead of feedback.
Amps and Pre-amps since the early 80's have all used either global feedback, zero feedback or local feedback to filter out noise and lower distortion by sending and filtering the feedback current to filter capacitors or or an extra filter transformer. A small amount of voltage feedback occurs at the output stage in amps and preamps which goes back into the parts and boards causing noise and distortion which smears the quality of the music.The best Preamps in the world all have S/N noise ratios at 125 db's or above. The Hegel P-30 Preamp uses the same feedforward technology as FM Acoustics but is a more current design that Bent Holter calls "Sound Engine" patented technology that eliminates feedback which is why the P-30 Preamp has a S/N ratio of 132 db's, which has never been accomplished in high end audio with a Preamp costing $10K or below. The same applies to Roger Sanders Magtech amplifier which uses a patented linear voltage regulator that controls and regulates voltage with no excess voltage going back into the amp causing heat and distortion problems. The amp puts out 900 watts into 4ohms. Krell makes a pair of mono blocs that also use a similar voltage regulator. The amps are $100K a pair. HERES THE PERFECT SOLID STATE SYSTEM. A Hegel P-30 Preamp. A Sanders Magtech amp, A pair of Aerial Acoustics 7T speakers. The worlds finest SACD player, the Playback Designs MPS-5, designed by Andreas Koch, who invented SACD technology when he worked for Sony. He built the worlds first outboard DAC in 1982 and is legend in digital engineering. The MPS-5 is the most analog sounding player on the market which costs $17K. The Hegel P-30 is only $7500.00 and the Magtech amp is only $5K. The Aerials are $10K. Buy the solid core cables from Morrow Audio. They are low capacitance cables which matches up perfectly with these components. This combination sounds like the very best tube and solid state gear on the market. The whole system will cost about $42K but will sound as good as any system costing $200K. All of these products are game changers. If you want better looking cabinets and faceplates, then blow your money, but you will not get better performance for what this system has to offer. It is the HOLY GRAIL you are searching for and there is no better combination for the total cost of the system.
audiozen
clio09
3,358 posts
 
Here is a quote from a very famous designer (a degreed engineer) who has no qualms and makes no apologies for using negative feedback in his designs (although he has designed amps using zero negative feedback as well) but is certainly conscious of distortion and it's effects on sound. In addition you will not find boutique parts in his designs and he is quite well known for his testing and ability to make some of the quietest amplifiers out there.

"I intend to write a paper on the more complete story of 2nd harmonic distortion theory. I will say here that it must be minimized (but not at the expense of adding other distortions). What listeners don't seem to realize is that large amounts of 2nd is fine for a single note but not for a full orchestra. As I like to say "Please tell me what is the second harmonic of Beethoven's 9th? The amplifier is having a little trouble figuring it out". Once music becomes a complex signal, the second harmonic argument goes right out the window. The amplifier can only act upon the instantaneous voltage it is given and has no idea what notes are being played. At that point, it's Intermodulation Distortion we had better be taking care of. How many of us have heard our single-ended amps make a mess of a symphony yet play a solo voice beautifully?"

Like Kijanki mentioned there is more than one way to skin a cat. Also, I can certainly can see why some designers like Frank Van Alstine might get a bit miffed at audiophiles and their persistent obsession with boutique capacitors and other parts. I have come to learn that as Ralph said when you start with a sound circuit design, everything else seems to just fall in place. Good reliable parts is a must, but that doesn't necessarily translate into mega dollar capacitors and resistors.
audiozen OP
831 posts
 
Atmasphere.."damping factor has a basis in mythology"..
disagree. The top mega-buck solid state amplifiers all have
in common very high damping factor number's. A list of some of those amps..Soulutions 501 and 700 mono-blocs have a damping factor of 10,000. Simaudio Evolution 880-M, damping factor 2000. Simaudio Moon 400M, damping factor 800. Accuphase A-200, damping factor 1000. Parasound JC-1,
damping factor 1,200. Hegel H20, damping factor over 1000.
All class D amps have damping factors at 1000 or greater on average. The bottom line why these engineers strive to have high damping factors is the higher the number, the lower the output impedance, results in ultra low distortion coming out of the speaker. The most critical reason is the woofer. If you have a massive forty pound woofer in a 300 lb. speaker, you better make damn sure the amp you are using can grab and control that woofer with an iron fist.
Designers of high powered amps with high damping numbers and low output impedance are well aware that woofers have larger piston's that have longer back and forth travel distance since low frequency waves travel a longer distance than a midrange or tweeter wave. Having an amp with high damping and low output impedance, which is usually below 1 ohm, results in ultra low distortion and perfect piston motion in the woofer, to make certain the low end is as deep, clear and powerful as the speaker designer intended.
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Knghifi,
I said it`s an interesting read and discussion. You`re under no obligation to agree with his perspective.It was suggested for those with "open minds" to other`s ideas and designs.
Regards,
tbg
5,263 posts
 
As always this is a dead end discussion. Were all our ears the same and tastes the same, there might be a clearly best preamp. Even then, however, I doubt it. Imagine a "best" wine, car, wife, ice cream, composer, pop star, or pizza.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,856 posts
 
Audiozen, I can only assume that you did not read the article at the link I posted earlier so here it is again:
http://www.atma-sphere.com/Resources/Paradigms_in_Amplifier_Design.php

The top mega-buck solid state amplifiers all have
in common very high damping factor number's. A list of some of those amps..Soulutions 501 and 700 mono-blocs have a damping factor of 10,000. Simaudio Evolution 880-M, damping factor 2000. Simaudio Moon 400M, damping factor 800. Accuphase A-200, damping factor 1000. Parasound JC-1,
damping factor 1,200. Hegel H20, damping factor over 1000.
All class D amps have damping factors at 1000 or greater on average.

None of these are what I would call the top transistor amplifiers and they all sound pretty much the same to me. You may disagree with me, but that does not make what I said any less correct (I tried not to waste my time at MIT Minnesota). There really are speakers out there that need an amplifier with low damping factors and they will sound terrible if you use such amps as you listed. And no speaker known to man needs more than 20:1. Damping factor is mythological.
More to discover