Line Arrays - Competitive with best dynanics, ESL?

Pros/cons of line arrays?
I'll share my experience (listening, not technical) with the Selah Audio Incredarrays (consists of 10 Seas Excel W15 mid-bass drivers, 8 Fountek JP-2 ribbon tweeters and 2 Peerless XLS 12” subwoofers per side). This is coming off of several $15K dynamic speakers, as well as dipoles and ribbons.

Here's what they do better than any other speakers I've owned:
1) dynamics. Having 20 very good drivers per side conveys a lifelike punch and an instant transition from soft to loud and back again
2) leading edge transient response is amazing/startling and akin to the real thing
3) lifelike height! Compared to these, most speakers I've heard vertically shrink the soundstage.
4) presence, especially to vocals, that's uncanny
5) detail, and more detail, without etch or glare
6) integration. The drivers are reasonably seamless without a hint of breakup at transition points
7) room loading. They don't fight with the room, needing far less correction from my Tact than my last speakers
8) air. 16 ribbons that are quick enough to make cymbals really shimmer
9) easy to drive. your choice, tubes or SS.
10) not the absolute best in depth (my Genesis were better) smoothness (my Talons were smoother (but too recessed through the mids) or width (think 15' apart Dunlavys)-- but they're more balanced and natural in both soundstaging and imaging

Nitpicks:
Some might want more lush mids. Some may want a less forward presentation (stage-wise) and a softer upper mid/treble perspective. I thought they might be a little harsh in the highs on some material, and that saxes were a touch on the ruthlessly revealing side when I first got them, but now I think they're just right in these regards, accurately portraying what's on the recording.

Cons:
They're big!
6' tall and 2' deep rectangular boxes 8' into the room. But I've yet to hear a speaker presents a realistic stage that isn't way into the room. I'd considered smaller speakers (since I have corner subs (time-aligned with the Tact) but once you hear the dynamics and presence of the big boys it's hard to go back.

YMMV.

Thanks for all the great responses guys!

Albertporter - What dynamic speakers did you own? What compelled you to move to the Sound Labs? Can you compare/contrast the pros/cons of the Dalis relative to the Soundlabs?

Richards - Does Selah still make the Incredarrays? On their website the only two line arrays that they have are the Alexandrite and the XT8. Have you compared your Selahs with other known excellent implementations ie. Pipedreams, Dali, Wisdom, etc?

The reason for my interest... is I an taking a lot of time researching the speaker implementation that I feel would suit me best long term. I will be buying a house within the next year or so and I will be looking for a great room to build an audio system around. I would like my auditioning to include speakers from each camp (dynamic, planar, horn, line-array) so that I may conclusively decide which methodology I prefer. It has been my experience that a speaker (and room of course) lends the biggest contribution to the overall sonic picture, and electronics and accessories "voice" and alter that picture, so my plan is to first choose the speaker I would like to live with long term, and build the system around it. I already have some exellent electronics (supratek, plinius, sota, etc), but I have no problem changing electronics if they are not compatible with the speakers I choose. I currently own standmounts from the Dynaudio Contour series, which I do very much enjoy, but I would like my "this is it" system to kick it up a notch. I listen to and enjoy jazz, classical (large and small scale), rock/vocal (acoustic and amplified), rap, and electonic music. The speakers that I choose must be able to shine with all these types of music. Currently on my audition list are:

Budget - Would not like to go much higher than $15k

Note - I have a Velodyne DD15 on its way. WIll most likely add another at some point for a true-stero bass integration, utilizing the high-pass crossover to the main speakers. So- dead on full range down to 20hz is not a requirement for my speaker choice as the Velodyne(s) will handle this.

Dynamic: Merlin MX
Wilson Sophia (have heard these, my top choice so far)
Audio Note ($10-$15k range)
Verity Parsifal (a bit over budget)
Dyn C2 or C4 (gotta represent 'cuz i'm a dyn owner)

Horn: Avantegarde Duo

Planar: Sound Labs A1
(I've heard a few maggies and the new Quads, and while they're both great in some ways, aren't good enough "all-arounders" for my broad taste in music)

Line-Array: Still need to choose a couple representatives in the up-to-about-$15k group to audition

Thanks!

Todd

I am into Maggies, but, based on listening experience, the only dynamic system that I might buy would be a line array. "Line array" is a better description than "Planar" for Maggies, since the panel is much higher than wide. Because a line array has so many drivers, they don't need to have the long cone excursion capability and powerful magnet that is necessary for a conentional box. Therefore, while high quality (expensive) drivers can't hurt, they may not contribute much. I am interested in the potential of an "open" line array using full range drivers (which don't have much bass anyway). Augmented with a SW of course. Next DIY project.

Todd: Check out the Selah forum at audiocircle.com. Haven't heard any but read many super raves of Rick's speakers. I'm sure you can have a killer line array for under 15k. I've always wanted to hear some line arrays since they seem like a great idea but all I've read. It surprises me they're not more common. They are expensive and large though.

Albertporter - What dynamic speakers did you own? What compelled you to move to the Sound Labs? Can you compare/contrast the pros/cons of the Dalis relative to the Soundlabs?

Since the late 1960's when I was still in school, until now:

Bozak B-4000, Bozak Concert Grand, JBL S7R (vertical), ESS Trans Static, Crown ES 224, Snell type A, Dale Pitchers Essence reference 10, Vandersteen 2C, Vandersteen 4A, and ProAc Future Ones.

During the time I owned these, I auditioned almost every speaker made as I spent several years running three high end audio stores and then took a job as the factory representative for a group of audio manufacturers. I travelled a five state area calling on and setting up high end retail stores.

The lines I carried as factory representative were: Kirksaeter, JBL Commercial, Infinity Systems, Yamaha, Denon, Crown International, Ampex USA, ESS Systems and MB Electronics (Germany).

I listen frequently to speakers owned by friends and members of my audio group. Combined, they owned (and I've listened to at length): Magneplanar 3.6, Magneplanar 20, Vandersteen 2C, Vandersteen 5's, Kharma Exquisite 1De, Sound-Labs A1, Sound-Labs A3, JM Labs Mini Utopia, Wilson Watt Puppies, Wilson Grand Slams and Quad 989.

As for pros and cons of Dali Megaline versus Sound-Labs.

Sound-Labs is still the winner for ABSOLUTE perfection in phase accuracy, the ability to combine midrange, sweet treble and kick butt bass into one perfect, coherent package.

The Dali is more efficient, much greater dynamics and contrasts, larger soundstage with the ability to play complex classic passages with ZERO compression and without volume limit (should you choose loud :^).

I am still working on the coherency thing.

The new tube crossover resolved most of the issues I had and I suspect the next step will be exact matching of the four mono block amplifiers. Frankly I and members of my group are stunned at how good coherency is now and I'm running mixed design amps. VTL (6550 output tubes) from 1100 HZ down and Air-Tight ATM3 (EL34 output tubes) from 1100 HZ up.

Everyone knows how sensitive the human ear is at 1000HZ, and I'm accomplishing what I have with these two amps "shifting" duty right in the sweet spot.

More tests forthcoming as the crossover continues to break in. I hope to try four Air Tight ATM-3, four VTL 750's and possible four Atma-Sphere MA1's.

As for budget minded lovers of line source designs, the GR Research line by Danny Ritchie is a wonderful speaker. Danny is working on two new line source speakers and a well known cabinet maker is teaming up to deliver finished product. The two line sources will be available in two heights and corresponding quantities of newly designed BG ribbons and Peerless 6.5" woofers.

I would almost warn anyone to wait for these before buying. Estimated (high side) price is $4995.00.