2. amps-preamps
  3. 1426779273

Is my preamp useless?

I enjoy my current system, which is built around a BAT VK-52SE preamp. I listen mostly to digital, via a Bryston BDP-2 player into a PS Audio DSD. I also enjoy vinyl on my VPI Classic/Dynavector/Sutherland 20-20 combo. Like most of us, I’m usually on the upgrade path. For me, the next component to upgrade would be the BAT preamp from a 52SE to a 53SE. But something occurred to me. I don’t listen loud. The gain on my PSA DSD is set to less than 100 and the BAT preamp is usually set between -20 and -10. So if my volume control is never set in the + range, is my preamp doing ANYTHING other than attenuating the volume and serving as a multi-input switch? Is all that Super Tube, single gain stage, zero feedback, high energy storage circuitry a waste of money?

Don’t get me wrong. I am very pleased with the sounds I hear. But if my pre isn’t doing anything, then I’d be better off to sell it and get a very simple passive attenuator, wouldn’t I? If that’s the case, what brands and models should I listen to?
Thanks for any advice.
slanski62
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 

Let him run then, if he did.
If he asked "Is my preamp useless"
Well yes then in his case, as he has to turn down his PSA source (risking bit stripping) so he has then some usable volume range on his BAT pre, even it then is in the negative of it's volume range.
So you can see, he's doing exactly what Nelson Pass is against, attenuating the source only to bring it back up again, (NOISE AND ALL) with the active preamp, and in his case the BAT is still in the negative of it's amplification. So it's no win on either component.

Cheers George
zd542
5,339 posts
 
"So you can see, he's doing exactly what Nelson Pass is against"

I'm still trying to figure out what Nelson Pass has to do with all of this. And even if what you are saying is true, there are other aspects to a preamps design that effect sound quality.
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 

"Zd542 I'm still trying to figure out what Nelson Pass has to do with all of this."

"We’ve got lots of gain in our electronics. More gain than some of us need or want. At least 10 db more.
Think of it this way: If you are running your volume control down around 9 o’clock, you are actually throwing away signal level so that a subsequent gain stage can make it back up."

If you can't make out what he's saying, I can't help.

Cheers George
shakeydeal
979 posts
 
This seems like a lot of banter for not much progress.

Like George has stated, it would be a simple process to run the DAC directly into the amp just to test the outcome. If the OP doesn't like what he hears, then a passive linestage probably isn't in his future. If he does, problem solved. Sell the BAT and pocket the $$. If he hsa other sources, then buy a passive linestage.

Pretty simple actually.

Shakey
larryi
4,357 posts
 
I do wonder if there is some missing context to what has been quoted from Nelson Pass. He is big into supporting the DIY crowd (puts schematics for First Watt designs on line). If he is talking to that crowd, he would be addressing those who tend to be very conscious of the price-performance relationship and would never spend really big bucks to get a tiny increment of improvement. I can see him telling them that MUCH more expensive actives are not worth it even though he builds ultra expensive actives for a different crowd that is not as concerned about price vs. performance.

Mr. Hansen of Ayre has stated that passives will outperform actives in suitable systems until one gets pretty high up in price for the active unit. There might be some truth in that.
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