2. amps-preamps
  3. 1426779273

Is my preamp useless?

I enjoy my current system, which is built around a BAT VK-52SE preamp. I listen mostly to digital, via a Bryston BDP-2 player into a PS Audio DSD. I also enjoy vinyl on my VPI Classic/Dynavector/Sutherland 20-20 combo. Like most of us, I’m usually on the upgrade path. For me, the next component to upgrade would be the BAT preamp from a 52SE to a 53SE. But something occurred to me. I don’t listen loud. The gain on my PSA DSD is set to less than 100 and the BAT preamp is usually set between -20 and -10. So if my volume control is never set in the + range, is my preamp doing ANYTHING other than attenuating the volume and serving as a multi-input switch? Is all that Super Tube, single gain stage, zero feedback, high energy storage circuitry a waste of money?

Don’t get me wrong. I am very pleased with the sounds I hear. But if my pre isn’t doing anything, then I’d be better off to sell it and get a very simple passive attenuator, wouldn’t I? If that’s the case, what brands and models should I listen to?
Thanks for any advice.
slanski62
zd542
5,339 posts
 
"So you can see, he's doing exactly what Nelson Pass is against"

I'm still trying to figure out what Nelson Pass has to do with all of this. And even if what you are saying is true, there are other aspects to a preamps design that effect sound quality.
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 

"Zd542 I'm still trying to figure out what Nelson Pass has to do with all of this."

"We’ve got lots of gain in our electronics. More gain than some of us need or want. At least 10 db more.
Think of it this way: If you are running your volume control down around 9 o’clock, you are actually throwing away signal level so that a subsequent gain stage can make it back up."

If you can't make out what he's saying, I can't help.

Cheers George
shakeydeal
979 posts
 
This seems like a lot of banter for not much progress.

Like George has stated, it would be a simple process to run the DAC directly into the amp just to test the outcome. If the OP doesn't like what he hears, then a passive linestage probably isn't in his future. If he does, problem solved. Sell the BAT and pocket the $$. If he hsa other sources, then buy a passive linestage.

Pretty simple actually.

Shakey
larryi
4,343 posts
 
I do wonder if there is some missing context to what has been quoted from Nelson Pass. He is big into supporting the DIY crowd (puts schematics for First Watt designs on line). If he is talking to that crowd, he would be addressing those who tend to be very conscious of the price-performance relationship and would never spend really big bucks to get a tiny increment of improvement. I can see him telling them that MUCH more expensive actives are not worth it even though he builds ultra expensive actives for a different crowd that is not as concerned about price vs. performance.

Mr. Hansen of Ayre has stated that passives will outperform actives in suitable systems until one gets pretty high up in price for the active unit. There might be some truth in that.
milpai's avatar
milpai
2,499 posts
 
Charles1dad,
That "specific" situation that you mention is correct, at least in my experience. Below are the situations when I feel that a passive will not work:

1. The source signal is very low
2. The amplifier sensitivity is more than 1V for full output
3. The speakers are less sensitive (less than 87 db and 4 ohms). Generally the BIG monsters with 10-15" woofers and 4+ drivers will most likely not work with passives.
4. You need more than 2 meters of ICs between source and amp
5. You need more than 15 feet speaker cables

I am sure that speaker wires also will make a huge difference. But I have not looked into that measurements.

On the other hand, if you carefully assemble a system around a passive - it is all bliss!
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