Rock: well recorded bass...60s/70s

Hey Loomis - it's good getting a well articulated and reasoned point of view that differs from mine. I don't mind mulling over the new perspective...might be some educational parts to it...might simply confirm me in my present position. I'd way rather debate the merits of music than gear in any case. Well said about Cream (studio vs live) and Procol Harum. I tend to agree about Cream live: their live jam-type stuff IS more uneven than the studio work, (undisciplined maybe...think Jack or Eric might have said that) but for me, when they are "on" - it is just volcanic...like some kind of molten metal pouring out of the speakers. Gotta play it loud.

In general, I fell mostly out of love with Eric after, say, Blind Faith. The thing that rekindled the flame was finding the Live At the Royal Albert Hall Cream Reunion video on YouTube. I think Ornette really needed those other cats. "Lumbering" and "not coherent", and (I'll add) pointless, ego-driven soloing? I'm not going to defend every note they played back in the day...but those qualities are definitely not in evidence in the performances culled from the RAH dates in 2005. Maybe evidence of a maturity. Anyway, thanks for weighing in. Hopefully, given this thread was started in '08, Phasecorrect won't be offended having it hijacked by this Cream discussion.

Tostado - That's a great quote by Jack. It explains quite a lot about that trio. W/r to Blue Cheer (and MC-5 even more) - YES! "pro to-punk" - good descriptor. Exactly why (in contrast to prog) I mentioned them to Bdp.

bd, not that anything i say merits close attention, but i didn't accuse cream of being prog-y--i was referring to procol harum. in any event, while i never liked the mc5 (who were much more countercultural icons than worthwhile music makers), i do like big brother as a musical unit--i think they're highly underrated. on a purely technical level i supposed they struggled with tempo and key, but to me they had a real feel for that big bloozy thing. they made a record after janis, with nick gravenites as singer, which was surprisingly well-written and performed--wish i could remember the name.
the flamin groovies, whose name you invoke, were on a higher plane altogether--i genuinely think they were among the best american bands of the 70s, albiet in that narrow jangly pop genre. "shake some action" and "tore me down" are flat-out masterpieces and they did the best ever cover of "warewolves of london," which you should race to spotify to hear immediately.

Ghost, are u not a fan of Derek and the Dominos?

I think one thing a lot of these latest posts prove is that at a certain point, the various genre categories fail. To me, the era when music changed from middle of the road pablum to psych, harder rock blues, and led to different strands- from changes in electric folk to prog-- was one of the most fertile- say from the mid-'60s to the early '70s. I'm not saying there weren't elements or recordings or bands of interest before or after, but that period was an incubator of change. And, we have to thank the Brits for an awful lot of it, from helping us rediscover blues to providing a launching pad for American musicians, from Hendrix to Garnet Mimms (whose work is as great as any of the other big name soul/gospel singers, but whose name is rarely mentioned, except to note that he is tragically forgotten). I listen to all of it- and tracing back the roots of any one band's influences takes you in many different directions. Or vice-versa (listen to the originators, like Elmore James or Skip James and hear how their songs and styles were reinterpreted by others).

I'll take the "blame" for Bdp thinking someone said Cream was a prog band - though that's not what I said. Certainly, they were not one of the "art rock" bands (defining art rock as a sub-genre of Prog Rock) like I would consider ELP, Genesis, King Crimson or Yes to be. BUT if you read the discussion about musical characteristics of Prog found at the link here, to my ear and mind, many of these same elements are present in some (not all) of Cream's songs (e.g., We're Going Wrong, White Room, Tales of Brave Ulysses seem like good examples and I think there are others. Those are the ones that come to mind).
Prog Defined

From that same Prog Archives site, if you read what the authors are calling Hard Prog
(see link here: Hard Prog ), hard rock/heavy blues as played by Cream (and others) is cited as an influence on the Hard Prog sub-genre. If you look up the Wikipedia entry on Cream they cite Rush as a prog rock band influenced by Cream's live shows. When you read the Cream bio in the AllMusicGuide I see a strong overlap in that discussion of the prog music characteristics in the definition previously mentioned.

I'm not claiming the idea is original with me but independent of those sources, given Jack's and Ginger's jazz resume, Jack's classical training and Pete Brown's lyrics, and based on what I hear in some of their music, I think they were seminal to progressive rock; seminal as in "strongly influencing later developments".

Loomis - I was going to name Layla/D&TD (along with maybe, Journeyman) as an exception to falling out of love with Eric after Blind Faith. In the interest of the point I was trying to make, didn't seem worth it. I guess I'm kinda lukewarm on that album. Some of the song writing is pretty strong but the sound always seemed really crappy to me. And while some songs are very strong it doesn't have the energy or drive for me that Cream had. D&TD was a totally different place that EC wanted to be in. I don't hate it but if that was the only work of Clapton's that I knew - I don't think I'd be in love. Hey I have an open mind on it. Just saw Music Direct has a Japanese SHM SACD version of it. Maybe that'll be the ticket.

Enjoying the discussion. Apologies for my lengthy reply. I try to be complete.