When rap came out 30 years ago I thought it was just a fad

Well it doesn't surprise me that there is definitely a generation gap in music. I respect the legacy of BB King, Miles Davis and Bob Dylan's. They are great musicians.  I used to represent one of the guys who played with BB.  He was a great guy as well. I'm a fan of the great Lightnin Hopkins. Those guys can never be compared to what's out here today or any of the rappers. I would never do that. However, I'm happy business wise for them. I hope that the genre takes a turn back to the less stingy song and fake tough guy posing that's going on now. I hope they do that not for the outsiders that look in and judge that 30% that is misinformed or will never like it. I hope it changes more for itself to continue its reign over popular culture. " It needs to worry about the internal thought inside itself not the rants of those outside the culture. Enjoy whatever you listen to. I like Jazz the most.  For those who like jazz go listen to Duke Pearson's album "The Right Touch" great hidden gem that has some of the greatest musicians ever playing on it. 

onhwy61, you asked if I

might not have the knowledge to understand how the musicians are using these elements? With all due respect, while you are engaging in a discourse you seem to have closed your mind on the subject.

1) What knowledge do I need to have?  Do you mean schooling, performance experience, listening experience--please be specific and then I'll know which information to provide.  And tell us where you got your "knowledge," if you don't mind.

2) What specifically have I said that makes you think I have a "closed mind on the subject?"

@garebear 

We happen to be in basic agreement about the specific comparisons that you have made. While I do believe, for reasons that I have noted, that rap will endure, and that the best and most important of its performers will have long lasting legacies, I do not put them in the same category as the likes of Beatles, Dylan, James Brown, etc.

Also, like you, I prefer most other forms of music to rap.

But having said that, even if one doesn't like spoken word lyrics laid over raw beats, it is useful to listen to the messages that the best rap artists brought/bring to the table, as they remind listeners, often in pungent terms, of deeply important problems that challenge America and much of the rest of the world, namely class, race, poverty and inequality.

@whipsaw great take on this. That's important to note it's gives views from a different perspective and that always important to society. It has at times pointed out mistreatment and inequality in our justice system for example. I look on both sides because I saw it for before becoming a practicing attorney. Honestly when I read threads like this it makes me thankful for earlier rap and even a little rap of today because you can't just have one narrow minded point of view.  It's like a forum of media and music that couldn't be controlled by the powers that be. Rap at one time was the wild card to report on things that society would try to hide or ignore.  From that point alone it has been extremely useful in American Society. It created conversations about things that were being ignored. It also made a generation of young people not strive for acceptance but choose and make their own way. Once again it's all about perception and perspective. It also made folks understand that there is about 30% of people in this country that don't understand it or care to understand it. It also made it ok to not care if they didn't.  Public enemy, x-clan, Sister Souljah, Queen Latifah, Big Daddy Kane, Brand Nubians, Ghetto Boys, NWA, Black Thought(Band Leader of the Roots) OutKast(liberation) all spoke to issues in the community that had no other vehicle to spring them to the front of the line. Today's rap is different and is not as activist oriented as the pervious rap. However, it made sure that people who spewed out simple minded group think didn't control the conversation or America's point of view.

Most of music is about nuance within established forms.  Your comments about rap being jump rope rhymes over simplistic beats or your reference to RHCP as rappers suggests you are not familiar with or attuned to the nuances of rap.  I could be wrong and you could have an encyclopedic knowledge of rap, but you certainly haven't expressed it in this thread.

Regarding having a closed mind -- it was you who said rap is not music and it is not rock and roll.  Both statements are fairly extreme positions that are in opposition to mainstream thinking.  If 80% of the people think rap is music, then it probably is music for there is the wisdom of the crowd.  It's similar to 50,000,000 Elvis Fans Can't Be Wrong.  It really is incumbent upon you to prove your assertion and your comments about comedians and beatnik jokes aren't very convincing.