Is New Vinyl Exempt from Loudness Wars?

As I recall the three numbers are:

1. DR for the entire album/release
2. DR of the track with minimum DR
3. DR of the track with highest DR

So it tells you not just range for the whole album/release, but which tracks are best and worse. First number should always be in the range of second and third I would expect (average is somewhere in the range of min and max).

I don’t know how the site is managed or how the numbers are verified or not.

My gut interpretation from what I have seen so far is the numbers are of interest but should be taken with a grain of salt or two.    I personally would not use this alone to determine what to buy unless overall dynamic range is all one cares about.  I have many wonderful sounding recordings that do not rate particularly high here.  Amy Winehouse Back in Black is a good example.

Maybe others have more insight regarding the reliability of the numbers reported.

Mapman is correct with #s 1, 2, 3. #1 is the average of the entire album.  The higher the number, the more dynamic range (less compression).
If you click on the album title, all tracks will be displayed with their dynamic range.

I agree that the DR scale should not be the only criteria used in determining the sonics and range of the recordings. Although, I have found that CDs listed with low numbers in the red zone are overly compressed and not worth buying. (usually during the years of the Loudness Wars).

Agree with lowrider except some very red releases might still be worthwhile if....

1) You like the artist and want the music
2) You don’t care about earbleed
3) If you do care about earbleed, you better have a top notch system with low distortion and noise levels. That way you might still enjoy the music that’s there. The example for me I would cite is Death Magnetic by Metallica which is one of the worst DR recordings listed but I still enjoy cranked up high as it should be. It is still good nicely etched and crafted metal music, just not very dynamic.  It makes for a good test record actually along with the others if recordings like that matter to you at all.

So Is New Vinyl Exempt from Loudness Wars?
over 50 posts ? oops long post sorry.

Lets think about how the vinyl is made. This is an interesting very easy to read article.

http://www.resoundsound.com/mixing-for-vinyl-dont-fall-for-these-traps/

from there.

while the cutting lathes are truly magnificent machines and properly maintained stand the test of time beautifully… The format itself was not made to reproduce the kind of loud and often distorted music we have today.

Vinyl is an analogue format and sounds great. But with that come some physical limitations. Digital formats like CD and MP3 can reproduce anything where as vinyl is more unforgiving.

What Physical Vinyl Limitations ?

Well the very nature of the cutting act itself by the person and the machine (cutter). The person doing the vinyl master cut needs to be careful when cutting vinyl. Extreme signals can damage the equipment and also put grooves in the vinyl that are too big, which will prevent 20 mins of music a side. Go over 20 mins results in smaller grooves which leads to distortion and other problems like tracking.

Due to this inherent fragile nature of the analog equipment, and these physical limitations of the vinyl disc itself; this IMO just lends itself to making sure more care is taken. The end result can be a better listening product in a "well setup" vinyl rig, when compared with popular music on CD that contains loudness. And the DR ratings do seem to support this too.

But vinyl is a mechanical, resonance vibration setup GAME. There is a learning curve and it really all depends how well it is setup. Also if you look at the turntable setups they use to test records after cut they are IMO only finding out if the record tracks / plays. And this is ok, because the end customer setup and expectations are all different anyway.

Now with digital - IMO because of Digital’s greater potential, the engineers with some popular music are forced to make it loud, because 1) they can, and 2) because of demand by popular artists/markets. So the Digital medium even though it promises potential; the Digital process itself is a victim - in this case.

This phenomena is another example imo of how a lesser design (Vinyl) set up well; can trump a better design (Digital) when it is not done well. But when Digital is done well (recording/mastering) - it is very very good .....in my room anyway.

end of part A
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part B

now RIAA and I’d like to reference posts by Raul and Atmasphere.

Rauliruegas

Dear atmasphere: "" This is absolute nonsense. The RIAA curve has nothing to do with compression.. """"

of course is not the type of digital compression and maybe you are ok with that RIAA curve but if the LP medium is so good why that RIAA curve?, all we know why that kuind of compression in the bass range that you accept it does not means that that severe bass range equalization to lower those frequencies is a compression to me.

That RIAA curve eq. always degrades the original signal but the analog medium has no alternative due to the severe limitation of the LP medium.

So Raul mentions bass compression with the vinyl cutting, and I think that Atmasphere took issue with the word compression? I think Raul meant a word like "cut" or "reduce". I know that both Raul and Atmasphere know what is happening with RIAA.


First what is RIAA? for those reading who are not aware.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization#/media/File:RIAA-EQ-Curve.svg

RIAA stands for the Recording Industry Association of America, who set a standard in 1954 for the precise amount of bass cut and treble boost to be applied when records are made, and the converse boost/cut required when records are played back. There were numerous different standards of cut/boost before 1954, each requiring amplifiers with different playback characteristics to achieve accurate reproduction, but the RIAA specification became universally adopted and allowed all record manufacturers and amplifier manufacturers to work with a common standard. All modern records are cut to the RIAA standard.
So, a turntable requires a special amplifier to raise its output voltage to about a volt, and apply RIAA equalisation so the record sounds as it should. This device is known as a phono pre-amp or a phonostage amplifier.

from internet source..

So ...
When cutting the actual vinyl disc -
they do turn the bass down for smaller grooves , and turn high frequencies up - boost to eliminate noise.

Then when we play the actual vinyl disc back through our RIAA phono, bass and treble levels are equalized again. Bass boosted, treble attenuated. Really amazing if you think about it that the whole thing actually works.

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Opinion

So I think Yes to a degree in answer to the original post; and how much depends on how bad the original digital file is to begin with.

Just some observations - thx for starting the thread Mapman.

Here’s one for you btw from the DR database as I know you are a big fan of Springsteen 8^) ---


An artist that audiophiles like to take shots at for sound quality and rightfully so for some of the albums. Flat sound.

Springsteen - Darkness on the Edge of Town.

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=springsteen+&album=darkness

Ratings only show digital. Note the ones that are 14 overall - Good. Japan ratings lowest. What’s with that ?

I listen to a 1978 LP. Monster album.

My understanding is that AudioGoneer SLAW has a very special pressing of it. If he owned a reel to reel I would offer a R2R tape for it.
This album helped me through some trying times.

Power of the message over the music ?