Jazz for aficionados

***Okra in a taco?****

Okra in anything is GREAT! One of my favorite foods.

****Was this a set-up, Acman3? :-)****

If it was, it was lost on me. I had no idea they had exchanged 'pleasantries'. But, it is good to know, that Wynton has returned fire.

****In most respects any comparison of the two players is as pointless****

Not to mention being an insult to Marsalis. You want to compare him in a manner to show he has weakness, let's try Hubbard, Morgan, Miles. Not Lester Bowie!

****is as absurd as claiming that Stravinsky is not worthy to be considered one of the great classical composers.*****

This is the ONLY thing you have ever said, ever, that I just don't get. I think the statement in the previous post was "Stravinky ranks right up there with Mozart"!! You cannot be serious!

****For this listener it's fairly simple: the Lester Bowie clip had me truly engaged; I wanted to hear it in its entirety. Why?....considering the funky (as in bad) trumpet playing. Hard to put into words. First of all, that kind of playing requires a certain level of skill and control in order to "sound bad" (hang in there, Rok). Maybe it was the undeniable humor in his playing. But, I think most of all it's something that is impossible to really identify. IT JUST DID. The vibe, the timing, the unpredictability, the occasional and unexpected references to the traditional simply did the job of telling a convincing story that made me want to listen from beginning to end.****

It is true that some things can be so awful you cannot turn away.

I think Mozart did a piece called, or subtitled, 'A Musical Joke" He may have broken every 'rule' in classical composition, but, its's a nice piece of music. It's still being recorded today.

The Bowie thing was just noise.

It's funny, only if you knew a Great trumpet playing was messing around. Since I have never heard of this player, I took it different, even though I knew it was supposed to be funny. And I responded in that manner.

Besides I am not trying to judge this man's entire career on one throw-a-way tune. That is the only thing I have ever heard him play.

****There is no "jealousy" involved here and to suggest otherwise is plain silly and a smoke screen.*****

I meant his peers, not you personally. And to suggest otherwise would indeed be silly. You should know this better than the layman.

We really have no disagreement. I think we both know where the two players stand in Jazz.

Question:

Why is Jazz the only genre where the music has to undergo constant change or so-called 'progress'. Folks have no problem listening to Bach, Mozart etc... for centuries!!

Listening to Cab Calloway do 'minnie the moochie' on pbs as I type. It don't get any better. How you gonna 'improve' it?

Cheers

*****___In his autobiography, Miles Davis—who Marsalis said had left jazz and "went into rock"[12]—hedged his praise of Marsalis by suggesting that he was unoriginal. He also found him too competitive, saying "Wynton thinks playing music is about blowing people up on stage." In 1986, in Vancouver, Davis stopped his band to eject an uninvited Marsalis from the stage. Davis said "Wynton can't play the kind of shit we were playing", and twice told Marsalis, "Get the fuck off."[13]
Some critical exchanges have included insults. Besides insinuating that Davis had pandered to audiences, Marsalis said Davis dressed like a "buffoon". Trumpeter Lester Bowie called Marsalis "brain dead", "mentally-ill", and "trapped in some opinions that he had at age 21... because he's been paid to". In reply, Marsalis said Bowie was "another guy who never really could play".******_______

This is great stuff!! Everyone firing, but, Wynton was right on target. The Emperor Strikes Back!! ahahaha

Cheers

****This is the ONLY thing you have ever said, ever, that I just don't get****

Wow, high praise indeed! But, I think you are quoting someone else; although I do feel that Stravinsky is one of the great composers and Mozart certainly is also.

****You want to compare him in a manner to show he has weakness, let's try Hubbard, Morgan, Miles. Not Lester Bowie!****

I did; reread my post.

****He may have broken every 'rule' in classical composition, but, its's a nice piece of music.****

Within a very narrow scope perhaps, but not even close to breaking every rule; that wouldn't happen for about 200 years. With all due respect, when you understand that you will understand Stravinsky.

****I meant his peers, not you personally****

Of course that is what I meant. I referred to his peers; I have no personal stake in this.

****Why is Jazz the only genre where the music has to undergo constant change or so-called 'progress'. Folks have no problem listening to Bach, Mozart etc... for centuries!!****

Who says jazz is the only genre that undergoes constant change? A better question would be: when one considers how much jazz changed from its beginning to its "end according to Rok", why would it stop changing? Additionally, are you also saying that Stravinsky is a figment of our imagination? IOW, who says Classical hasn't changed. That is the point; art changes and evolves. Without Mozart (and others) there would not have been a Beethoven, and on and on to, yes, Stravinsky and beyond.

****Listening to Cab Calloway do 'minnie the moochie' on pbs as I type. It don't get any better. How you gonna 'improve' it?****

Well, to quote you, I could simply say "You can't be serious!". But, I think you've inadvertently hit the nail on the head; I think this is where you get hung up. You seem to always think in terms of "improvement". Evolution doesn't necessarily have anything to do with "improvement". You also seem to prefer the term "progress" to simply evolution. Improvement and progress are very personal definitions and don't reflect what art naturally does regardless of one's personal preferences.

"Music is the sole domain in which man realizes the present.”
― Igor Stravinsky

“To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears also.”
― Igor Stravinsky

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXRsRo6inTM

I do like me some Taco's!