Jazz for aficionados

Ghosthouse, more abstract jazz is not for the casual listener, but those who can go into another zone with the musician. As a rule those albums don't sell well, but musicians make them for artistic sake, or their own soul satisfaction.

For example, "Search For The New Land", could easily be set to choreography; you can even visualize movement as they search for a new life, which is the deeper meaning.

lee Morgan was not a mental lightweight, and the even more abstract music he made with Grachan Moncur III was an indication of his deeper search in his music; in this case Grachan Moncur's music.

Grachan Moncur's "Evolution" is for those who listen intently, and become involved in the music, the lineup gives an indication of this: Grachan Moncur III (trombone); Jackie McLean (alto saxophone); Lee Morgan (trumpet); Bobby Hutcherson (vibraphone); Bob Cranshaw (bass); Tony Williams (drums).



Enjoy the music.

****I said it once, and I'll say it again, he should have stopped before he got this far out because he was pleasing no one but himself as far as I can see; but I know you being the "alpha musician", scratch that "the consummate musician" can enlighten us farther, and explain how this was the way to go.**** - O-10

This question re Coltrane was asked by O-10.  We can skip the "alpha" and "consummate" parts; I am neither and have no interest in more rancor.  I bring this up ONLY in the interest of interesting discussion.  I never answered the question because I felt it was laced with sarcasm; we can skip that part too, it's ok.  I bring it up to answer the question; actually, to point out that O-10, himself, has answered it:

****more abstract jazz is not for the casual listener, but those who can go into another zone with the musician. As a rule those albums don't sell well, but musicians make them for artistic sake, or their own soul satisfaction.**** - O-10

The real question is: where do we draw the line and declare that the work is too abstract?  We can't.

***** The real question is: where do we draw the line and declare that the work is too abstract?  We can't.*****

Aficionados can't, but we of the Great Unwashed Can.   And do.

Cheers

Hello again Orpheus (regards to Frogman and Rok)...

I listened to Lee’s "Search for The New Land". I was glad to see this concept of "abstract" getting a little discussion before I responded to you here. I do think we have different things in mind when using or hearing the word, "abstract". For me Search was immediately accessible...not a painful or tedious exercise at all. More structured, melodic and rewarding than I expected.

I might be mixing things together inappropriately (probably am). When I hear abstract I expect a less/loosely structured composition possibly with elements of dissonance, and "free jazz"; sometimes a "difficult" listen.  
I admittedly lack the music theory training to better describe what "abstract" means to me, so I’ll give a few examples of things that I consider abstract. (A number of things on the ECM label, as it turns out). Look forward to comments from yourself and others if this topic (how to define abstract as applied to jazz) seems worth pursuing. Maybe you won’t even think some of what I’ve listed qualifies (A) As Jazz and (B) As abstract!  That’s OK too...I’m interested in other points of view.

In A Silent Way
Love Supreme
Out to Lunch
Rheomusi (Fabiano Araujo et al)
Dis (Jan Garbarek & Ralph Towner)
Magico (Garbarek w/Haden & Gismonti)
Sol Do Meio Dea (Gismonti)

I’m not saying I’m right and you’re wrong applying "abstract" to Search - please don’t misunderstand - but given my expectations for the word, Search for a New Land didn’t seem all that abstract to me.

BTW - quite the stellar group of musicians on that record. I really liked Wayne Shorter’s solo right before and through the 4 minute mark on Pirate Morgan.

Grachun Moncur III is an artist I can only vaguely remember; he could only be found in "aficionados" collections that were so deep into the music, that they functioned as libraries, no, not mine; although I have heard of him.

He is an American trombonist that was born in New York. When he was 11 he attended a private school where Dizzy Gillespie had studied. While still at school he began sitting in with touring jazz musicians on their way through town, including Art Blakey and Jackie McLean, with whom he formed a lasting friendship.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grachan_Moncur_II


Sometime when I can't find anything that appeals to me with a musician as leader, I do a whole lot better looking him up as a sideman.


Herbie Hancock. "My Point of View"

"Blind Man, Blind Man" – 8:19
"A Tribute to Someone" – 8:45
"King Cobra" – 6:55
"The Pleasure Is Mine" – 4:03
"And What If I Don't" –

Personnel
Herbie Hancock – piano
Donald Byrd – trumpet
Grachan Moncur III – trombone
Hank Mobley – tenor saxophone
Grant Green – guitar
Chuck Israels – bass
Tony Williams – drums



                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9UZWDAoUZk


As well as I like Pepper Adams baritone sax, I don't have anything with him as leader that I like; it might be the same way with Grachun Moncur, that's why if you like this tune, you can help me look.





Enjoy the music.